Flexi working request rejected, anything I can do?

[MommySharkDoDoDoDo]

Basically, I already have a flexi working agreement in place from when I went back to work after having DD. However, this now no longer works for me due to childcare arrangements falling through for one reason or another, and I am no longer able to fulfill my agreed hours at (very very) short notice.

I submitted a request which has been immediately refused on the basis that it’s too busy during the periods that I currently work and they can’t let me change, even though it would be to an equally busy period. For full disclosure, I work in a 24/7/365 organisation that is never not busy. I also fail to see how 1 person would have a detrimental effect on the ability of the department to meet demand. We don’t meet demand as it is.

It might also be worth noting that I’m asking to do a shift pattern that someone else has already had approved within the last 6 months.

There is also ongoing recruitment in my department until the end of the year.

I just don’t see why I should be penalised because they don’t have enough staff during the busiest times of the day, and don’t know where to go from here other than appeal and obviously that’s not guaranteed to be approved then either.

If they know that their refusal would lead to be having to resign (because I literally have no other option due to childcare) and they still refused my request and didn’t even try to negotiate/offer an alternative, could this be considered constructive dismissal? I’ve tried to research this but haven’t found anything current on this.

Any advice would me much appreciated.
TIA.

I mean out of necessity rather than want!! Not need 🤦🏽‍♀️

If they’ve approved other flexi requests in the past, including yours, why do you think they would take the ‘computer says no’ approach?

It does seem from what you say that they don’t stand to lose much

I just don’t see why I should be penalised because they don’t have enough staff during the busiest times of the day

OP - is it right that you are currently on shift at one of the busiest times of the day? the team on your shift is already struggling to meet demand. It would seem reasonable to say that the organisation needs you to stay on those shifts. if they get a new person to replace you there may be an initial drop in productivity with things already behind. Also they may be recruiting more for your shift, but it won't actually increase capacity if you change shift.

You can try to negotiate, raising the point that they will be losing a trained employee. Could you manage to juggle things for childcare negotiate now to change shift in a month or two when new people have been recruited for your shifts?

It does seem from what you say that they don’t stand to lose much

Well that’s a bit rude isn’t it

According to them it’s the busiest time of the day, however come 4pm all hell breaks loose and this is the time I’m requesting to change to start at. So it doesn’t make sense to me.

I don’t think it is reasonable to say that, because they would say the exact same thing if I was trying to do the opposite.

They’re recruiting for the shift I want to change to so all they will have to do is recruite for my hours rather than the hours I want to change too? It’s not the hard is it? Just a swap around.

Ha no sorry, I meant lose much if they allowed the request

I can probably manage for a couple of weeks but certainly not months trying to sort this out.

Also with my last request, I was actually very reasonable and gave them several different options I would be able to work with and they picked the one that was best suited to the business needs.

It’s just not fair that they can pick and chose when it suits them. I.e allowing it for certain members of staff and not for others.

Ohhh appologies Noel I thought you meant they don’t stand to lose much if I leave because they refused my request 😂 I take it back.

My fault, it was worded badly

Haha never mind

But yes you are correct, they don’t stand to lose much, it would just be shifting resources from one part of the day that is busy to another part of the day that is also busy.

Are you in a unionised workplace? If your a union member, get them involved. As PP have said you have the right to ask but not the right to get the working pattern you want. If as you say there is scope for you having the working hours you want and it being helpful to the organisation then try and get into a negotiation about it. Appeal the decision and be nice.

I don't think you appreciate how low the business reasons threshold is. If they can produce stats to show that you are needed on your current work pattern then they have discharged their burden of proof. Honestly, it's that basic. Your arguments are based on your opinions, but not based on any provable facts.

Speak to them again and try to find some middle ground. Stick to facts and do not criticise what you perceive to be planning deficiencies. Also stop saying that one person makes no difference, that's effectively saying you're surplus to requirements!

If you knew the organisation I worked for you would understand a bit better but it’s very identifiable so I can’t disclose.

It’s not solely opinion based, I do have things to back up what I’m saying but again - identifiable 🤷‍♀️

I’m not saying I’m surplus, I’m just saying that the demand is that high we’re never going to meet it unless they recruit 100+ more staff. We’re at the highest capacity we’ve been at for years in our department and we still cannot meet the demand. So the impact of one person is not that great. It’s well documented on my file that I do a good job but I won’t have a massive effect on the demand no matter what shifts I do.

Yes I’m in the union I’m going to try and speak to my rep tomorrow.

Are they actively recruiting to the hours you would like?

If so apply for that job..,

Guessing that you work in A&E. My husband is a business manager and you demonstrate very well one of the big problems with it- namely that the more you accommodate the more people will request, saying 'well X gets to do Y, so why can't I?' So each individual one is not a massive problem but on a larger level it can bring problems and lead to people feeling hard done by. It's very hard in general to find the balance between these things. In a lot of the NHS they're now bringing in e-rostering, so you can request specific shifts. If my guess is right, (i reckon it's either that or McDonalds! ) then you might be better off going back to normal shifts but requesting the specific ones you want with each off duty

Are you in a call centre or similar?

As pp have said, your best bet is probably speaking to your union rep. A good rep will have a decent relationship with local management or HR and they should be able to tell you exactly what the reasons are that your request was declined on the QT and will help you decide what to do from there.

It’s not as simple as “We’re always busy” - there’s much more that goes into accepting or declining a flexible working request. Who would step in to cover the shifts you were no longer working, what precedence is being set within the department for shift requests, what impact would it have on the staffing balance if you were off sick or on annual leave on the new rotation etc etc.

If your DH is changing jobs, will he earn more? You say that YOU can't afford a childminder. But what about your combined incomes?

Too many women seem to think that childcare costs are down to them.

In your shoes I'd wait to see if they recruit someone else to work your hours and then ask again about switching shift pattern.

No, his salary will decrease, but a couple of things make this workable (company car and getting rid of one of our cars makes up for the shortfall) and huge commission potential however this is obviously unreliable income.

It may mean that in the future I can afford nursery but it’s also the fact that it’s very short notice means I couldn’t get DD a place somewhere in the space of a week.

Our finances are all joint so when I said I, I meant we!

Is there any differences between the skills required on the different shift,apologies as I don't know your industry

But for example I used to have carers ask for certain rounds,but often they didn't have the right skillset (some specialist training etc) or the other way around so I couldn't do a straight swop

And recruiting for your original hours...is it really that easy? Again if I had a carer move from morning hours to school hours I would have a nightmare recruiting for the first but not the second

So I may have to refuse offering a different round and risk someone going because otherwise I would end up with a massive gap

No absolutely no difference is skills needed; it’s the exact same job just different time of the day.

Yes it is that easy, the job doing my hours is advertised and is being offered to the new staff.

Basically what happened was 2 years ago we restructured the shifts and they decided they didn’t want day staff so there was only a select few of us which has admittedly dwindled since then too. They’ve now realised they need day staff so are recruiting for those hours again.

Ah I see...then it doesn't make a lot of sense

There isn't a case for constructive dismissal really but did they officially as in in writing inform you of why they refused it?

If not I'd be inclined to request that...it may do two things, look at it again and reconsider (possibly to being aware you aren't going to just accept it and stay where you are) or possibly this may cause escalation higher up who may have a different opinion

Hope it works out