Very long working hours

[Pinkroseuk]

I'm thinking of going to my employer about the extra long working hours I seem to be doing atm and wondered if anyone had experienced anything similar?
I'm support in offices- minimum wage but salaried. Normally work 8-5 with hour from lunch but due to new computer system coming in August I have been doing 7.30-6 with no lunchbreak for last few weeks.
Now been required to do some weekend and evening work and possibly longer hours they tell me?
Can I say no? There's no one else who would do this work though so I kind of feel bad but I'm shattered! They have also asked if I can move my holiday (week in July) as too short staffed- I have only had a day off this year so feeling like a need a break but happy to do this if we can come to some sort of agreement -
Am I being unreasonable and should I be taking on the extra work?!
Thanks

Are you being paid for the extra hours?

It depends on whether you have signed to waive your right to work less than 48 hours a week (if you’re doing more than that) and also if you’re being paid for the over time (which I doubt if you’re salaried). If you’re on NMW/NLW and working a lot of overtime then that will mean your hourly rate will fall below the legal minimum wage, which is obviously against the law

No no extra pay for the extra hours- thanks @MrsDc7 I will look into that.
I know most jobs you give over the hours your meant to be there but this seems to be getting a little too much now!

Even if you have waived your right to 48 hours, you ca rescind that.

Although it is 48 hours measured as an average across 6 weeks, so you would have to work that out.

The good news is that you can report all your unpaid hours to HMRC and get the money back, and your employer will be publicly named and shamed. But if I were you I'd look for another job before doing that. Any employer who insists on a minimum wage employee doing unpaid overtime - especially coming in on extra days! - is the lowest of the low, and possibly also in financial difficulties.

I don't suppose you're in a union?

If you’re only on NMW for your basic contracted hours your employer is breaking the law if you do any overtime unpaid.

Stop doing the extra hours unless they pay you for it.

If you are doing eight hours a day plus one hour unpaid lunch break on MW your getting £62.64 gross per day. Take one of your 10 1/2 hour with no lunch days and your being paid £5.96 an hour instead of £7.83.

This is ileagal and HMRC come down hard on firms that do this. You need to think about what you do next especially if you've been in the job less than two years. Maybe look for an new job, keep a diary of your hours and then inform HMRC. You can not opt to work for less than MW. ACAS helpline might be useful.

I would ask if you can keep a note of the extra time you are doing and take it off as TOIL later in the year.

EmmaC78 The employers are breaking the law. This is way beyond some additional hours. Even 'getting the hours back' still means the employee is constantly being paid nmw. Fat fine for employer .

Thankyou everyone- we have to clock in and out so a lot of the hours are logged but I am also keeping a record.
I will look into some of the suggestions thanks-
I have been working for them for 4 years but looking elsewhere is a possibility- I would get paid more even if I did the same hours at local supermarket or something atm.

They aren't very bright then if they're keeping a record of breaking the law! I wonder if they think it's ok because you're salaried?

Fontof - I am a solicitor so am well aware of that thanks! What I was trying to offer was advice that gave the option to the employee to keep on good working terms with her employer (and help the organisation meet its goals) while benefiting the OP with some time off during a quieter period. It is called pragmatism.

Obviously not an employment lawyer then EmmaC78 ! or you would be advocating for the employee to be paid what she is legally due rather than advising TOIL , which sounds a lot like advising the OP to keep working for below minimum wage as long as the employer gives her time off in lieu !
All of which is against a shit load of employment law. But you would know that.

Btw, employment law isn't 'optional' just because the employer is busy !

absolutely agree with what borlotti said, to be exploiting min wage employees is pretty bad. Have they offered anything in the way of time off in lieu etc - are the hours going into an hours bank for more vacation time?

No what I am advocating is having a sensible discussion with the employeer about what the options might be instead of just immediately getting into a minimum wage/report to the Inland Revenue type scenario that some people seem to have immediately offered here as advice on the solution. One option, if it suits the OP, might be to take the time back in TOIL and a discussion about that would not necessarily be a bad route to go down. A lot might depend on the long term view of the career options at the company. Helping deliver an important project, within reasonable boundaries, might help longer term career prospects.

Thanks- no I have had no time in lieu offered. The project that we're working on is being launched in august but due to the fact not many have had any holiday this year yet it's possible that there won't be time for everyone to fit it in before the end of the year anyway.
I won't be going straight to HMRC as I don't want to start a dispute with the company straight away and would rather try to talk to my line manager beforehand.
In the role that I'm in atm I have no career prospects as unfortunately the management positions are all taken by men (I have tried to apply and been turned down due to this along with other reasons) but I would like to stay there for now as ttc and need the maternity pay if the time comes!
They are quite set in there ways and old fashioned company - I will try and get some facts together about the extra hours I have worked and read through my contract then talk to my manager next week I think thanks

Sounds like a good plan. They do need to offer a solution of some sort. Perhaps go to the meeting ready with the solution you want so you can try and be clear about what you want to happen. Hope you get it sorted.

Ok EmmaC78 , I'm not sure what kind of lawyer you purport to be but advising someone who is being exploited to by their employers who are BREAKING THE LAW !!! to have a ...

sensible discussion with the employeer about what the options might be instead of just immediately getting into a minimum wage/report to the Inland Revenue type scenario that some people seem to have immediately offered here as advice on the solution. One option, if it suits the OP, might be to take the time back in TOIL and a discussion about that would not necessarily be a bad route to go down. A lot might depend on the long term view of the career options at the company. Helping deliver an important project, within reasonable boundaries, might help longer term career prospects.

is darn right scary. This situation is an outright contravention of the minimum wage laws. HMRC have numerous teams around the country DEDICATED to stamping out this kind of ILLEGAL practice. It doesn't need 'advocating for'. It needs calling on, each and every time it happens. It's people like the OP that it was bought to protect. This isn't 'employment law-lite' this is the real thing. Just because a company is 'busy with a project ' that is no excuse to break the law and exploit the poorest paid...

I totally agree about keeping on good terms with your employer, thinking about the bigger goals of the company etc etc in normal circumstances and that's how I would approach a discussion with my own employer about working hours - but this is what you do when there's a relationship of mutual respect.

Paying someone the absolute legal minimum and then demanding they come in on their days off for no extra money is showing them that you have no respect for them whatsoever, and in that situation it's appropriate to fall back on the minimum legal protections that are in place for employees. That's why the law is what it is - it's to protect those whose employers take the piss.

Though I would find another job and THEN go to HMRC, if I were the OP.

Fontof please do not insult me.

Do you think that making a phone call to HMRC tomorrow to report her employer will resolve the situation. Honestly? They do not have some sort of swat team ready to make an in person same day call to every employer reported.

Or do you think raising the issues/converns sensibly, in an adult manner, with her manager to try and agree a solution that suits them all might be the best first step?

EmmaC78 is offering real world practical advice. The OP speaking to her line manager first is really sensible.

OP can always report in future but this gives her the chance to sort it out without doing that. In turn that keeps the relationship with her employer positive which is always useful to her in terms of her day to day life at work, her future prospects and a reference when she leaves.

Barlotti - it doesn't seem like there has not been any discussion though. It sounds like OP has worked extra and now been asked to work even more but has not actually flagged the issue via management. I agree totally that if the employee starts to insist on this extra hours etc after a discussion and OP is not happy with that then absolutely things should go further but there needs to be that initial flagging of concerns and discussion - properly documented.

Emma - I think you're more optimistic than me! I have worked for a dodgy small company like this in the past and anyone trying to start a conversation like this would have been accused of disloyalty.

Barlotti- that might be the case but you cannot have a discussion about it on that basis. At least it is then documented that the issue was raised and not resolved. I think the employer will be using a stronger term than disloyal if the first they hear of the issue is a letter from Revenue.