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Original poster

Tricky and VERY annoying work situation. Should I kick up a stink? (sorry , long)

51 replies

CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:01

Some of you may remember that recently I had a thread saying I was going part time (4 days a week) and how happy I was about it. They have now decided that I am not going part time and I'm not sure what to do.

Basically I agreed with them last year that I could go part time as I have a young child and my job is v stressful, involves lots of travelling etc. I also felt I was missing out on dd's development and wanted to see more of her. Once they had agreed the new conditions I was going to sort out a date, then fell ill with Glandular Fever and was basically off work on and off from last November until the end of May.

Now I have gone back to them to organise this, they have back tracked and said that they want me to continue full time as they are very busy. To add insult to injury, when I came back from illness my boss's boss called me and said did I want to go 4 days a week to help ease me into it (of course when we were quiet....grrr). I said I would think about it and 3 weeks later called my boss and said yes, I would like to, partly because of my illness and partly to see dd more.

He then stalled getting back to me for ages. I finally spoke to him this am and he said that as we are busy (and I am one of the more senior people of whom they are rather short at the moment) he would rather I continued full time and reviewed it in a few months

I pointed out that it had been agreed previously and also that I was partly doing it to ensure that I was in a fit state to work and that I wouldn't get exhausted and end up going off sick again because I was over worked and travelling too much.

He said that if I do get ill we can review it again. So I reluctantly agreed but said that I am very unhappy about this. There are a couple of other factors - there have been a raft of redundancies in the last month and I don't want to rock the boat too much, plus they were very good to me when I was ill and paid me full time so I feel that maybe I should agree to this because of that, give a bit back IYKWIM.

On the other hand, THEY made the redundancies so why should I suffer because their resource planning is up the chute? Plus there are a number of other people who work part time, one has just been allowed to go part time (single, no kids) because she has IBS. Several of them don't have kids but still work 4 days a week.

NOW

I wonder should I send him and his boss (both of whom I am quite matey with) an email registering my annoyance, and effectively saying "Well if I have to go sick again don't blame ME" sort of thing (to cover my arse). Or do I just agree to do this graciously (ish) and then use it as a stick against them later? I know that I can insist on these hours, my boss has said as much.

In the meantime my little baby will be 2 next month and time is slipping away.....

HELP!!

OP posts:
motherinferior · 09/08/2004 14:07

Oh babe. I'm inclined to feel you have to press for the four days from the point of view of your own health, quite apart from a day with dd (which as you know I totally agree with, being a four-day worker myself). You can't wait till you get ill again to review it, dammit.

Original poster
CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:09

Hmmm, I agree, though I had agreed the 4 days prior to being ill so I don't want to say to them that it is soley for that, then they withdraw it later IYKWIM. I agree from a sensible point of view it would be better all round. I don't want to piss them off though and I have an excellent working relationship - how can I word the e-mail sensitively?

OP posts:
eefs · 09/08/2004 14:14

Countess - perhaps compromise? Get your boss to define when the situation will be reviewed and tell him that you will go on 4 days then. So you'll only have a few months of a full week and they can't say you didn't try to help them out when they were busy.

Original poster
CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:15

eefs he did say that we would review in December (at which point I groaned loudly) but we didn't really agree to it. I think I must send an email just clarifying what we have agreed as he is a bit wooly and mad and may forget!

OP posts:
beachyhead · 09/08/2004 14:17

You are allowed to request, legally, under the new directives, flexible working hours if you have a child under 5. You have to do it on a particular form and they have to have a good business reason for saying no, which they have to put in writing within 28 days. It is quite hard for them if there are precedents in the company. I would be inclined to not try for it on the grounds of your ill health. You are legally allowed to ask for this and I don't think drawing attention to ill health is something any employee really wants to do. I also wouldn't keep on about them changing their mind - I agree they did change their mind, but unless you have the agreement in writing and are prepared to go to court with it, it's not much use.
If they refuse, when you have gone down all the proper request route, then I would start looking around for another job. Just because they were good to you when you were ill doesn't been you are trapped for ever.

You may find that if pushed, they will go for it. My company preferred to have me three days a week than not at all!!!

Heathcliffscathy · 09/08/2004 14:18

CD! they can't do this to you!!! you poor thing. i should kick up stink! surely under the new flexible working proposals, given they previously agreed it if it went to tribunal (which is wouldn't lets face it) you'd get 4 days?

you are obviously a valuable asset to them, you need to stay happy and healthy to be as productive for them as they want you to be...i would go back and say that you feel they can't renege on what they have already offered you.

it's taking the piss a bit to my mind. i'm so sorry you're in schtuck like this...

x

Hulababy · 09/08/2004 14:21

I would also keep pushing for it - on the original grounds, rather than illness one. Find out the exact laws and include them in your request. Don't let them get away with it! Your DD is not getting younger, and you can't get back the days you miss with her.

princesspeahead · 09/08/2004 14:22

countess, can you not try and have your cake and eat it too? ie can you not send an email saying something like "as you know we agreed some time ago I would reduce down to four days a week. This is something which is very important for me, and which I am still committed to doing. However, I understand that due to understaffing problems at a senior level, it would be helpful for the company if I continued at 5 days a week during this busy time. Accordingly, I am willing to postpone my move to a part time role until [specify date - give them 6 weeks or whatever] to give you time to sort out staffing and capacity issues."

That has the advantage of 1. stating your rights - they agreed the four days 2. leaving them in no doubt you are going to do it 3. looking like you are flexible and loyal by postponing the date 4. salving your conscience that they were good to you over your illness, and 5. making it fairly clear (although not hitting them over the head with it iykwim) that they need to get their acts together in 6 weeks and if they don't it ceases to be your problem.

That will only work if you can bear to postpone it for any length of time though..... really you have the upper hand because they clearly rate and need you.

Original poster
CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:22

Hmm thanks all

Beachyhead he did say that he knew that I would get it if I pushed but wants me to do them a favour as they are so busy (their own fault if you ask me). However I don't want to abandon them in their hour of need, they didn't do that to me IYKWIM!

Sophable no it won't end up in a tribunal!! Well I hope not anyway!

I think maybe I should take the route of agreeing to stay full time until December (health permitting) but formalising a p/t working agreement NOW to start then. I have quite a bit of holiday left for the year so could probably get a lot of fridays off. He did say that they would make sure I wasn't travelling too much and that I spent fridays at home on admin activities etc.

OP posts:
princesspeahead · 09/08/2004 14:25

ps I wouldn't mention your illness at all, it isn't really relevant (although obviously it affects how you view them).

ps I'm assuming you don't want to quote the WTD at them and keep this fairly light, and deal with them as an equal, at management level, rather than as a stroppy replaceable employee...

as a director of a similar company that is how I'd prefer my staff to approach me anyway

Original poster
CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:25

PPH great minds etc.... (posts crossed!)

Hula yes you are so right.

However I think I can find it in my heart to allow them a little time. I shall send an e-mail as per PPH's suggestion. I'll let you all know how it goes

Mumsnet is the BEST sounding board. Thanks guys xx

OP posts:
princesspeahead · 09/08/2004 14:27

no, cd - if he suggested december then give him until 1 november. he can't complain, you look reasonable yet tough (which is what they pay you for, lets face it) and you earn his grudging respect!

Original poster
CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:27

oh absolutely PPH - I am not going to quote any legislation at them, I'm not trying to hold them over a barrel or flounce about and I am a loyal and reasonable person. I was initially very upset but I can see their POV too.

Off to compose email

OP posts:
Blu · 09/08/2004 14:27

Rushing, but what about:
" I do understand that we are v busy atm, however, I would like to discuss further reverting to the plan that was originally agreed, i.e that I work 4 days a week. This is because I still feel that it would benefit my health more, and I think it would have a more positive impact if we can plan for my workload over the longterm, rather than potentailly have to make emergency cover arrangemnents if my health suffers again as a result of working f/t."

Hulababy · 09/08/2004 14:28

Are you sure you can wait until December? That is another 5 months. How about say a 3 month period of notice before it starts - I think 3 months sounds fair, and you won't then have to work right up to the Christmas break.

Hope it all goes well.

Don't forget to keep copies of all correspondence over it.

beachyhead · 09/08/2004 14:28

I would say that you should go onto 4 weeks now and then work the Fridays from now until December for a paid amount (your day rate). The only problem will be, if you are sick, you may not get sick pay on Fridays. I had a horrible situation, when I arranged to work a Thursday, had childcare etc and then had to go into hospital for a EPRC following a m/c (and they didn't pay me, the sods!!!) So if you do feel tired following your illness, be sick on Mondays (which will make you feel very guilty!)

Blu · 09/08/2004 14:28

Sorry, hadn't read PPH's advice to leave out refs to health...

princesspeahead · 09/08/2004 14:31

sounds good beachyhead but will probably send her hr and accounts/employee benefits department nuts, treating her as both a salaried employee and a consultant at the same time. will probably be vetoed on that alone.

Freckle · 09/08/2004 14:32

Could you word your email along the lines that you are looking at your long-term working life with them rather than the short-term and that, given the nature of your illness, the chances are that working full-time will bring on a recurrence rather than might. Obviously their staffing shortage will be hit right where it hurts at a time when they can afford it least. Agreeing to flexible working now means that at least they have your services guaranteed for 4 days a week for the foreseeable future, rather than having them for 5 days a week for probably only a matter of weeks/months.

You are one of their senior employees and they clearly don't want to lose you. Also if they have been making people redundant which means that you need to work longer hours, they haven't really done away with those jobs, have they? Merely transferred those responsibilities to other employees. Bit sneaky.

princesspeahead · 09/08/2004 14:34

noooooo, don't talk about illness!! don't give them any reasons re the 4 days - you want it, you've a right to it, they've agreed it, full stop!

don't give them anything to argue about "well we'll review it IF you get ill again" will result

popsycal · 09/08/2004 14:38

look here and here and here for info about your rights - hope this helps - good luck!

beachyhead · 09/08/2004 14:38

No, I'm just treated like an employee and they just make an additional payment through my payslip, like a bonus to account for the extra days I work - they were really cool about it... I used to do extra days for time eg. holidays, but that got more confusing as they used to try to take away any unused time at the end of the year, so I reverted to money. From January, I am going to try to get them to agree to a 7 day fortnight or just an extra 26 days a year, so I can earn holiday, pension etc on my extra working!!! HR's first response was 'what sort of union do you belong to!' (none actually - just a working mum!)

Freckle · 09/08/2004 14:39

But illness has already been mentioned. You're not giving them another weapon against you. This is merely appealing to their common sense. That business about "if you get ill again" is dreadful, almost as if it's just a problem they'll have to deal with in the future, whereas it will be awful for you to go through it again.

Parents have a right to ask for flexible working. They don't have a right to get it. It is entirely up to the employer, although the employer has to satisfy one of a number of grounds in refusing.

Original poster
CountessDracula · 09/08/2004 14:42

I haven't mentioned the illness.

Have put my proposal of a 3 month lead time to allow them time to plan resource. I think that's fair as that's my notice period. Will take him out for a nice dinner on Weds night (we are both up at head office!) and butter him up

OP posts:
princesspeahead · 09/08/2004 14:45

well done!