Returning to work - asked for reduced hours and was told NO

[Trix11]

I thought I was doing the right thing by telling my line manager that I would be putting in a request to work 4 days instead of 5 when returning to work from maternity leave. I was told No, my job is a full time job and that was it. I asked should I complete the form and go down the formal and correct route and was told that there was no point, although he did acknowledge that he probably should not say that but there was no point. I work for one of the big banks as a first line manager. Do you think I should accept this or what are my options? I did speak to HR a week later and was told that my manager must have known he could not accomodate my request so that was why I was told no!!

Are you in a union? They are usually pretty helpful about this sort of thing.

I work in the public sector so my experience may be different to a bank however ime (and through various diversity training workshops) employers have to have very good reasons why they cannot accomodate your request. New law was brought in 3/4 years ago aimed at parents of children under 6. All employers should aim to accomodate requests for flexible hours - there are various ways this can be done - job sharing reducing some of your work load etc. The only thing to bear in mind is that employers do not have to give you your old job although it has to been on the same salary (pro-rata) and grade.

My DH does not work in the public sector and he had been able to take advanage of this law by leaving early 2 days a week to pick up dd from school. He makes up the time in the evening or on other days.

I suggest you get more offical advice before you accept their decision.

There is a union but im worried about rocking the boat and them thinking Im a trouble maker - They woulkd definately hold it against me.

No you should absolutely NOT accept this. Have you worked for them for more than 6 months - check out the full eligibilty criteria on DTI.

Write to them with the words "I am formally applying to reduce my hours under the flexible working legislation in order to care for my child/children who is under the age of 6. I wish to do xxxxxxx. " They have a legal duty to consider your request (though not a legal duty to day yes).

Also log what has happened so far, detailing dates/times/contents of discussions with various people as this will be crucial going forward. Make sure you write as much down as possible.

Upon receipt of your formal request, they have 28 days to hold a meeting with you to discuss it then another 14 to write to you with their decision. If it is a no, they have to expain why and there are only 8 reasons they can turn it down.

Look up ACAS and DTI for help with your application. You need to demonstrate in your letter/meeting how the reduction will work in reality and how things can be overcome etc.

Based on what they have said and how they have acted so far, they are bound to try to turn you down so keep evidence as you may need to go through the whole appeal process and maybe a tribunal.

God I hate these type of idiots who treat people like this, you would think a big organisation would know better!

Just read your last post about rocking the boat and not wanting to look like a trouble maker - toughen up a bit, you have a legal right to this, and also not to be treated so badly!

If you suffer as a result then thats another issue, one that can also be dealt with.

Do you want the 4 days or not, sometimes you have to fight for things

Sorry, as you can tell I am quite passionate about this subject!

Cardy, your comment about not having to give you your old job back is not correct in terms of flexible working. They have to say yes or no based on your request and your current role. If they can't justify a no under the 8 reasons then they have a legal obligation to accomodate your request as a permanent change to terms and conditions.

However, there is nothing to say they can't also offer you another role which does have the hours you want. You are under no obligation to say yes, you can pursue your request still but if you want to accept another role then thats up to you.

They should still invite you to lay down your request in a letter rather than just saying 'no, sod off!'

They still have to consider your request and give you formal reasons for turning it down.

Good advice from chocolatekimmy. I was possibily getting mixed up - if you take more than the 6months paid mat leave (i.e. 6 months unpaid leave) my employer do not have to give you the same job when you return.

I have heard many reasons why people have been told they can't reduce their hours however in most cases the reasons can be overcome though a bit of flexibity and creativity.

If its about return to work, you still have to be given your old job back after 12 months maternity leave UNLESS it is not reasonably practicable to do so.

That basically means that if the job is still there, they have to give it back to you. They can't say they have got a replacement for you so its tough. Its virtually only if the job no longer exists.

If it has disappeared through a redundancy exercise then they should have been in contact and following that process instead but thats another (long) story.

What sort of bank do you work for? If there is a genuine business reason, they can refuse. This has happened time and again to friends of mine in market facing jobs where it's just not practical for someone not to be available the entire period that the market is open. If you're in retail banking, it may be easier to argue your case though.

I work under the Lloyds umbrella but not in the banking side as such. There are 7 of us doing the same job - managing teams that have to be available to speak to customers between 8-5. No other team manager works reduced hours but quite a few of the team members across the teams do.

Apologies for the late reply, Ive had problems accessing PC.

Trix - agree with Chocolatekimmy - toughen up, you're not a trouble maker - just asking for them to consider your request is your legal right.

Don't let them mess you about!!!

Trix. Shoot. It's a tough one because of the customer thing, I reckon. If there are other people who do similar types of jobs to yours, with the customer facing focus, you should be able to establish that there is a precedent though.

How senior was the HR person you spoke to? Perhaps you can get somewhere with a more helpful person further up the chain of command?

Our job is to manage the teams though. The staff in the teams have the contact with the customers.

I agree with chocolate its crap that big organisations still think they can get away with saying no dont bother doing it properly you wont get it I work for the nhs big hospital and had a similar experience. I spoke to ACAS who gave loads of great advice.

Here

Trix!!! Am in same situation as you! Where do you work exactly or do you not want to say? I'm in process of appealing my refusal....took a union rep with me to work options meeting and all! They think I'm a trouble maker but I couldn't give a flying toss!!

Hiya - just skimming, but your company have to produce a really strong business case for refusing you, or they'll be breaching the 2003 Act. Equal Opps Commission website have lots of info on this subject - worth a look.

Going back to what you said about being scared of joining the union because you'd be seen as a trouble maker....

Well, firstly, they don't have to even know about it. You can pay by direct debit and have meetings and communications with your union rep out of work time, etc.

They don't have to write your letters but can certainly advise on the best wording, etc.

It's a bit like insurance - you hope you'll never need it but, when you do need it, you're damned glad you've got it.

Hopefully it will all be sorted amicably but, not wanting to be doom merchant here, if it does go horribly, you'll need more than just advice from Acas. Sometimes you get a boss who is just a bit of an arse, or an issue escalates into something much bigger. And then you're glad that you've got a union and all its huge resources, skills and experience behind you. Plus they have legal teams behind them. And support networks. And financial assistance if you need it.

All in all, you get a lot more than if you went to a no-win, no-fee lawyer, or just tried to cope with it on your own. They will have dealt with so many cases like your own.

Please, at least talk to them!

Im due back to work (full time) in a couple of weeks, I will join the union and look into taking it further, at least to get a meeting to discuss properly.

Nikki email me on [email protected] and I will let you know where exactly it is. Do you work for the same organisation.

Thanks for all your advise you have been very helpful and informative.

Trix

Have e-mailed you but just wanted to add that they are not following the procedures properly. A work options form must be completed by with a business case for working the hours that you wish to do. Then a meeting must be held whereby all options are discussed and then within 14days of this meeting, they must tell you their decision. They can't just say no out of hand like this

HTH

PS meant to say the work options form must be completed by you - you should have one as part of parental leave pack

Trix...just had a quick read through and I echo what's been said already, but one thing I will add is that if you do go back to the full time hours and are doing them before making your application, then it becomes more difficult for you to argue that its impractical for you to do them. ACAS have lots of case histories on their website detailing this sort of stuff.....Good Luck and keep us posted as to how you get on. I'll be wanting to reduce my hours when I go back and its always good to have experience of other peoples situations.

Trix - how is it going? Hope you got my mail