Upset - Feel bullied for not staying overnight!!

[ziopin]

I am a teacher and have agreed to be on a team at school who are starting a new initiative

We will be required to attend a course for two days (12 of us). The course is being held in a hotel, which is only 5 minutes away from my home.

We have been given rooms to stay overnight, but I don?t wont too. I've got 3 children at home (we've got a nanny all day) and want to put them to bed/wake up with them in the morning. The course finishes at 4.30pm so I cant see the problem.

My boss has issues because I won?t stay out overnight, and publicly asked me why I didn't want to stay out. He even asked my husband if it would be ok for me to stay out overnight! (Dh works in the same school) All this is said in a packed staff room. I wish the ground had opened up! The staff room fell silent!

I am really p*ed off over this, and feel bullied into staying out. Any advice would be appreciated

It does sound like bullying. Stand your ground. I hate being made to feel bad about not wanting to do overnighters - well, I don't feel bad, atually, but hate people trying to make me. At least you've got lots of witnesses if he tries anything like this again.

Obviously, it was wrong of your boss to ask publicly and I would be furious that he asked your husbands permission . I would speak to him (in a private meeting) and point out your concerns. However, I know I have been on courses in the past where although the day would end at say 5.00pm we would then all be expected to meet later over dinner or in the bar and continue with certain discussions. This is usually quite an enjoyable part of the course so you may miss out if you choose to go home - it's only one night.

My sister had the same thing. She stuck to her guns and refused to be bullied. The next year she didn't get such a hard time. Sorry this isn't any help to you at all is it, I just wanted to know that someone was listening to your rant!

Just ralised - he asked your husband!!!! I'd be spiking his (boss, not DH) coffee with laxatives!

I think bullying is an exaggeration. I think your boss is very inept, however, and blundered badly when he tried to deal with this publicly and by asking your husband. What a moron. In the private sector we are roped into stuff like this all the time, including trips abroad. I recently had three full days, two nights away in a foreign country and some sh hotel, one day was a weekend and we won't be getting an extra day's holiday thrown in. We grumbled but my limitus test is how many times a year we're required to do this. For me, it's once, maybe twice so I put up with it. My husband is a teacher and his school paid thousands for everyone to go away, and the hotel was twenty minutes from most people's houses. This was a waste a money, in my opinion, and the 'team building' consisted of getting pissed. It's annoying but I think these things are pretty much part of everyone's working life now so unless it's becoming REALLY frequent I would just go along with it.

Isn't there room for compromise here? You go home & get the kids to bed & then return for a bit of "bonding" in the hotel bar (which is presumably the justification for the overnight stay) and then return home to sleep & get the kids up in the morning. You could sell it to your boss that he's getting the best of both worlds, you take part in the team building without the cost of an overnight stay on his budget.

Genidef. It is bullying. He humiliated her openly in front of her colleagues. He did not treat her like an independant human being and a valued member of staff, but like an appendage to her husband.

While I agree with BetsyBoop that there is a fairly simple comprimise avaliable here, the fact that he belittled her and treated her like someone incapable of making her own decisions in front of people she has to work with every day is clear evidence of bullying.

Do have a word with your boss and tell him how it made you feel - especially the bit about asking your husband.
But I do think you're being unnecessarily awkward about it and could compromise by going home to put the children to bed and then returning for the evening meal at the hotel or whatever.
It's only one night, and will stand you in better stead in the future with your boss and colleagues.

This is v bad 'people management' from your Headmaster.

I would speak to him privately, express your reasons for not staying, and state that you felt humiliated by his actions in questioning you about it in the staff meeting. he definitely shouldn't have asked your husband either - he's taking advantage of the fact that your husband works there.

If he persists I'd speak to your union rep about it.

"It's annoying but I think these things are pretty much part of everyone's working life now so unless it's becoming REALLY frequent I would just go along with it." Genidef - but they shouldn't be should they? Therefore, even more important to explain why you don't want to/can't go.

Did teh staff room fall silent because they were embarrassed for teh boss btw?

No, I don't think the occasional night away is a crime against workers, actually. It's more difficult when you have a family - of course and in that sense irritating - but there are often legitimate reasons to have these sorts of events.

I didn't even like overnights prior to DS! I don't live for work and I want to unwind in the evening and not be all gung ho for work!

Actually, I got seriously moaned at for asking if we would get paid overtime for being away overnight!!!

its seems like a terrible waste of money to be staying at a hotel so near to your place of work.

"but there are often legitimate reasons to have these sorts of events" Such as?

Its bullying. And sex discrimination, in actual fact.

Agree with those who say he was completely out of order. Private meeting to tell him so I think. And document it. What a tosser.

I would also refuse to do an overnight particularly if it was round the corner from my home. I want to see the kids and also switch off from work! I hate things like this - even before kids I wasn't keen!

Sadly, it is the sort of thing I could imaginr my head at work to do. But he would make a joke in the staff room. Although he comes across to many as a real 'people person' he has NO idea how to handle issue like this (this is the man who, when ds2 was 6 months, suggested perhaps I ought to 'wean the boy from the breast' to make him sleep!!!)

Stick to your guns. See him privately and ask if the overnight stay is mandatory. What is the agenda after 4:30pm? ALso point out to him that he made you feel extremely uncomforatble and you feel like you are being coerced into this when in actual fact you don't need to be there.

How would you feel abotu meeting them for drinks in the bar once the kids are in bed? I might consider this as an option in this situation.

Good luck. It is awful working for a boss like this!

Can't you just leave after the dinner and then return for breakfast. As Aloha said on another thread. What's he going to do - spontaneously combust?

I did this (leave, not combust) because the hotel was crappy.

Legitimate reasons include: in client facing industries you need to be available for the clients during normal business hours which means it is awkward or even impossible to have a meeting about internal matters during working hours, such as strategic issues etc etc. I assume most people would prefer to have some say in what's happening in their company and would appreciate having their views sought on that, rather than not being involved at all.

For school or a hospital say, this is even MORE the case. You can't tell students or patients for example to go away while you chat about these matters.

This IS bullying and totally out of order to do what he did.

Go for a priavte meeting with him to discuss this further and I would recommend taking in someone with you, to witness what is said and how. This could be another memeber of staff or even a union rep if necessary. Depends on how you think it might go. Ask him WHY it is so important that you stay over; what exactly will occur after the course finishes; what are the objectives on the eveing activities in relation to the course. And is there a compromise situation - prehaps going home after the course, returning later for a meal and/or drinks, then returning home after that.

I too would not want to stay over when just 5 minutes from home - even before I had DD. I like to unwind at home after work. I don't sleep as well in a hotel as my own bed. Would prefer to see my child in the evening if that close, etc.

Legitimate reasons include: in client facing industries you need to be available for the clients during normal business hours which means it is awkward or even impossible to have a meeting about internal matters during working hours, such as strategic issues etc etc. I assume most people would prefer to have some say in what's happening in their company and would appreciate having their views sought on that, rather than not being involved at all.

For school or a hospital say, this is even MORE the case. You can't tell students or patients for example to go away while you chat about these matters.

She's a teacher - not sure teachers have been forced to refer to pupils and parents as clients yet. Still does not require an overnight stay. And, agree, it woudl be even more ludicrous to be expected to do it if only 5 minutes away from home

Tinker - I was not calling them clients. I was drawing a distinction. You asked a question which was clearly rhetorical as far as you were concerned and I shouldn't have bothered to reply.

Ziopin (OP) - you did say you had agreed to be on the team. Your head-teacher is clearly trying to do some team-building, but has handled it very badly and you,understandably, feel aggrieved by his approach.
Can you see beyond that and try to accommodate him at least part of the way, while still expressing how he made you feel?
Managing upwards is important in creating a good working environment - it'll help you in the future.
If you can't do that, is it too late to pull out of the team you agreed to be on?