Obligation to pay back training costs?

[minieggdom]

I work for an accountant. It is a small business and I work 3 days a week. I've been employed by my boss for nearly 10 years.

Over the years I have watched my boss become more and more disinterested in the business. Complaining clients are a regular occurrence and I often feel if I am the only one committed to the clients!

No other member of staff has lasted. There has been a lot of clashes.

My boss is a "reactionary" kind of person and she who shouts the loudest gets what she wants but is then resented by the boss, to which I then am moaned to by both my boss and colleague about each other.

I have been a quiet employee who hasn't caused her any issues. When a new employee was immediately sent on training courses I had been promised a place on, I questioned her and she booked me on it too.

When a new employee received time off for training and another was given the opportunity to study for a qualification paid for by the boss, I questioned her policy on it and asked if I could also take the opportunity to train too. She agreed to everything I asked, BUT I had to ask after she had offered these things to others.

I have been promised much over the years, none of which has materialised. Much higher level work and manager of a new branch. No new branch has been opened. I've only had one appraisal.

She has said she wants me to do much higher level work but has now employed 2 unqualified friends of hers in lower ranking roles and I can see no way of them being able to take on any of my work for a number of years with their current study and learning rate. I don't mean that to sound nasty but that is the reality.

I am working my way through achieving my qualification via home study and really want to use it.

I want to leave. My kids are older and I'm ready and eager to move on.

So, my dilemma is, if I leave, should I offer to pay back some of my training costs? Currently around £1500. My partner thinks I should pay it all back. I disagree. There is nothing in my contract that says I have to but I do feel some moral obligation to pay "some" back.

No way.

You're not morally obliged to pay anything back. Nor legally if there's nothing in your contract. I certainly wouldn't offer anything, it's not like you've been there 5 minutes and taken everything you can get!

Don't pay anything back. You don't owe them that at all.

She sounds awful. You’ve made the most of it despite having to fight for it. Take what you’re owed and leg it.

If your partner feels that strongly he can pay it back.

You've given enough time to them, and if they would give you the opportunity to move up in the business then you wouldn't be leaving. They are not making those opportunities available to you, so if you've gotten further qualifications then of course you will leave in order to use them.

If they want you to stay, they should give you the chance to use your new skills. They've paid for them but clearly still do not value you.

If it's not in your contract, then you don't need to pay it back at all.

It doesn't sound like you have been treated particularly well tbh. If there was an expectation that you would stay on after your training then there should have been an agreement made regarding paying back fees.

As things stand I think I would trot off into the sunset (or a new job) without a backward glance.

Errrr what?! No way. You've worked there for 10 years and training has benefited both you and the business. She agreed to pay for the training. No one would ever be expected to pay it back.

Don't offer anything.

I had a friend who was contractually obliged to pay back her AAT training costs when she left mid training contract but it doesn't sound like any of that is going on here.

Thank you everyone. My partner is an employer so finds it hard to see the employees perspective I think.

In my bosses mind she thinks she'll give me the higher end work. I'm sure that's her intention but my colleague took 9 months to do AAT level 1 and has taken 5 months to do a quarter of one module of level 2. There are 5 modules at level 2. The two levels take on average 12 months to complete. Realistically she needs to be level 3 to do my work or qualified by experience. She has no previous experience of office work let alone accounts work, so she's still unable to data input effectively. She's lovely but I simply cannot see her taking any of my workload any time soon.

My boss asked my opinion on who she should employ before taking her on. I advised her to take on someone experienced or qualified to my level. She ignored my opinion (as is her prerogative), but ultimately her decision just doesn't work for me.

In the NHS we have to sign a contract if we are undertaking expensive training to declare that if we leave within 12 months of completing the training we will pay back a percentage of the cost. If you haven't signed a similar contract then you're not liable for any training costs.

We have a policy like gamerwidws. I spotted it after I signed up to a 4 year qualification...

I did level 2 AAT distance whilst having an unrelated full time job and was still quicker than her. You owe your boss nothing, put yourself (and your pocket) first and let her see the error of her ways after you've moved on to somewhere that appreciates you

I agree that it all depends on what your contract says. Most companies that provide training have a clause that you have to repay some if you leave within a certain time frame, which is quite fair as who wants to train people to do something, then they leave?

I can see where you are coming from, qualifications do not equal experience.

I think that you have worked there for long enough that you need not feel guilty about it. If there is no clause in your contract, then I would find another job.

If she wanted you to pay it back if you leave, she would have required you to sign something beforehand. If she wanted your training to come with conditions attached she would have notified you of those.

She chose not to. Don’t offer!

unless it states in your contract you have to pay it back i wouldn't

There's nothing in my contract and I've signed nothing since.

I have also chosen the cheapest studying options compared to my colleague.

I also took some qualifications off my own back 5 or 6 years ago paid for by me, mainly for my self employed bookkeeping work and insurance purposes. However, they also benefitted my employment greatly. I told my boss at the time but she took no interest.

I didn't consider asking her to pay for those qualifications, which benefitted her business.

I think my partner is missing the point of how much value I have added to her business. 🤔

”I think my partner is missing the point of how much value I have added to her business.”

I think actually your partner is missing the point that he/she is supposed to be on your side and also the point that it would be completely bonkers for an employee to willingly give money to an employer where it wasn’t owed!

Good lord no. You owe her nothing. If it's not in your contract just skip on out of there, it sounds like you'll be well rid.

Even if there is a clause in your contract, it's actually very hard for it to be legally enforceable. I know this as its in our contracts but we were asked not to let the juniors know we can't actually act on it!!
However, you clearly owe nothing here and your DH is being daft.

You owe absolutely nothing back. Please put this idea to bed, completely!!

My employer pays for my degree, as part of that arrangement I had to sign a form to say I wouldn't leave for x number of years, if I did then I would need to pay back.

If your boss hasn't done that, then no, I wouldn't offer to pay - I wouldn't even mention it. I don't think she could make you pay anything either.

I was in this position a year ago, boss paid for a course that would be beneficial to business within. 2 weeks of me starting she realised the company could not tap into that market at all. It was awful job, I managed to find another job and she had an unsigned training agreement that she said was proof I should pay. She basically withheld my reference until we reached an agreement. I think I paid about 50% of the course.

She only spoke to once after I handed my notice in- after 3 years no goodbye or anything. It was worth every penny to leave that role.

A very good point is made about a reference. She could refuse to give me one couldn't she?!

The only time I have known of an employee paying back training costs was when there was a contractual requirement to do so. The person was aware of that: they made a business case for the funding - several thousands over 2 years - and had to sign a contract saying they would pay it back if they left within x years. When they left (unexpectedly!!) I got the fun job of working out what the actual costs had been so it could be reclaimed from him.

Don't be daft.

With mine she never refused to give a reference but apparently did not get the email- once we reached an agreement she suddenly found the email. I just wanted out and my mental health was suffering and so I did the thing that gave me the quickest end to the whole thing.