Anyone else annoyed about the NHS pay offer?

[SuttonSurrey]

I have been at the top of band 6 for about 5 years now so it means I only get the basic pay rise - under inflation.
How is it fair to move those at the bottom of the bands up (so, 29% pay rise) when I had to work my way up over time? I can't believe the unions are accepting this. It devalues experienced staff.
Is anyone else in the same boat?

They're getting the yearly increments and you're not, they're including the increments people moving up the band would be getting anyway to make it look like a bigger increase.

The gap between registered/qualified profession staff and band 4 is laughably small now.

It's bollocks isn't it , a complete swindle , can't understand how the press hasn't made more of the cover up regarding the yearly increments being included in the increase.

The posters up showing the rise includes increments, which is wy it looks like staff at the bottom of the band ate getting more, it's just smoke and mirrors OP

I got the impression that, yes it is the incremental rise, but they will be moved from, say, spine point 24 to spine point 28. So, you could have a new starter at band 5 (bottom of scale) moved to the top of band 5 on the same pay as someone who may have been there quite a number of years. Can you see what I mean?

We have someone who has just been moved to band 7 (and didn't have the right qualifications, unlike me who did! - yes, I'm bitter about it) and she will now shoot to the top of the 7 band even though she has only been a 7 for 6 months!

But you can also earn more than someone on a higher band. If you're top of Band 6 they'll be lots of people on band 7 earning less than you because top of band 6 is about half way up band 7.

Yes I am. So many problems with it.

It will affect sick pay, possibly mat pay with no unsociable hours etc payments included in calculations.

For some bands, once the increments are stripped out it is as low as effectively an 0.54% rise.

Plus it will push people into higher pension contributions so check impact on take home pay.

They have to do something about the lower bands anyway because they won't meet minimum wage requirements soon if they don't do something.

It is totally smoke and mirrors. It is actually not going to do anything for recruitment and retention. It is just rude. We should increase the GDP we spend on health (mostly wages) - we get very good value for money in this country already.

Uncle nugget - this will change if the proposals are accepted. There will be clear differentiation between bands

Definitely all smoke and mirrors. It's all about breaking AFC and the rates are not genuine. It's a total insult to the most experienced staff who want to stay in their current role.

It's so complex I can't get my head around it.
I'm 8c and there seems to be something about me having to re-earn part of my salary.
I'm sure at the end of the day it will be a pay cut with pension increases. That's what usually happens.

Like with most things the government do, the whole pay thing is going round in a full circle.

When AfC was first introduced, it was explained to us that the top of the band was the actual salary for a particular role, however, it takes time to build the knowledge, skills and experience that allow you to perform at that level so increments were created to reflect the time taken to reach that. As we all know, they have since used the increment argument to try tell the public that we all get 2 annual pay rises - this isn't really the case. Moreso, we are being paid less than we should be (especially if experience from private sector/working abroad is a factor as we still start at the bottom of the band).

From what I can see now, the longer term plan is probably to remove increments as there will only be 3 increments per band going forward from this deal. A huge insult to all those at the top of their bands as op has said.

I'm also worried about what other changes they are sneaking into our contract - I am expecting a reduction somewhere like unsocial hours plus an increase in pension contributions.

The way they have gone about this pay deal - taking so long to give us anything whilst rewarding themselves with huge increases - together with their first proposal of making us pay for our pay rise through a reduction in annual leave shows the total contempt they have for NHS staff. I don't trust any part of this deal to be in our favour

There have been many mentions of how they are planning to tackle staff sickness with this deal so I am sure sick pay is being reduced drastically. I've not seen any details yet though.

It does seem like a raw deal for long serving staff.

My dp will do well out of it, he’s bottom of band 2. it’s a lot of money for us and there’s unlikely be a better offer. That kind of pay rise is holidays, new clothes, home repairs and days out that we can’t afford at the moment.

I’m public sector (not nhs) and also been subject to a pay freeze, I’ll be getting a 3% increase. Works out about £540...I can see who’s getting a better deal and I don’t grudge it.

At least it sounds like you still have increments, ours went over a decade ago. Most of us are within a few hundred of bottom of the scale for our grade. The only way to receive a meaningful pay rise is to get promoted, which means you have people chasing promotion too soon with very limited experience, or changing departments to chase the cash rather than building a career.

I'm at the top of band 5 and very annoyed at the deal. It doesn't value experienced staff. I also want to know about sick pay and whether this will be affected, does anyone have any information on this?

My understanding was that although they will move to only three increments, the increments aren't every year - it will take 2-3 years to move up and there will be performance objectives that have to be satisfied in order to move up, so no automatic increment. Apparently, that was always the intention, but it never worked out like that and everyone just automatically incremented every year (I've only worked for the NHS for a year so don't know too much about the history apart from what my bosses have told me).