Is the jobs market really so dire or am I missing a trick somewhere?

[GetSmart]

Here's the rant.....I used to work for large multi-national in a decent career (sales role) prior to having kids. Decided, and was very fortunate, to take redundancy and have a a few years break to raise the children, thinking I would think of a new venture, or get into a new line of work when the children are a bit older. That time is now! I can't believe how dire the situation is. Unless you want to sell make-up, or books (and there's nothing wrong with that by the way, it's just not me), or have a few quid to start something of your own up (which we don't have following a break), there are ZERO jobs that even remotely suit the hours needed when you've a family.

I've now also found that I'm actually not qualified to do any other role as they all want experience. Sales isn't a career for returning women to the workplace.
Is it just me? What's everyone elses experience?
It's a shocking situation as there's tonnes of talent amongst the Mum community thats just going to waste, which is a very sorry state of affairs.
Come on employers and seriously embrace the flexible working please.

halfwit that is really fucking depressing.

Every aspect of life in this country seems to have been pared back to the bone. There is no money anywhere except at the very top and workers are bearing the brunt.

I loathe the attitude that you make your own luck. I honestly could not have tried harder these last two years to make a go of something new but the opportunities are no longer there.

I have a graduate brother who has finally found a job that will help get the experience for the career he wants, three years after graduating. It's unpaid

Where are you all in terms of counties? I wonder if it's a regional thing?

You seem surprised, but I thought it was common knowledge, or at least people have known that it was very difficult that get back in, that's why no one I know has taken a career break, for years.

I own a company and I used to offer part time family friendly hours with the ability to work from home if there was an inset day or occasional sick child but had to stop as it ended up costing me far too much in terms of lack of reliability and productivity. I use freelancers now. No employment issues and far less overheads, I get the work done in an agreed timeframe and to a standard we have agreed prior to work starting. If the work isn't done or isn't the standard agreed they don't get paid ( as per the contract) until it's rectified.
I found that people ( I had males on part time flexible roles too) tended to start off really well but over time the sick child days increased and I found that people were claiming to log on at home and get the hours in but actually hadn't at all. The last straw came when one employee posted pictures on Facebook of them with their sick child looking suspiciously bouncy at a long weekend in Butlins whilst texting me to say said child was v poorly with a high temp and vomiting. We were paying quite a bit better than NMW.

There are loads of people out there who have had a career break and have great skills to offer but there are also loads who see part time family friendly as a bit of a hobby job to fit in when they can. I think this is why those roles are disappearing, they're just too expensive for employers to maintain.

Set yourself up as freelance, you pick your hours and set your rates and choose who to accept work from. My accountant is freelance and brilliant. I pay 150 for 6 hrs per month and she does those hours whenever she wants as she has a disabled child and partner. She has quite a few clients on the same deal and earns well but is not missing out on family life.

Where are you all in terms of counties? I wonder if it's a regional thing

I'm on the border of West and East Midlands.

Oblomov, try reading that back to yourself.

Sorry if it was too harsh.

I think it's always been hard for women to get back into their careers after taking a break to look after kids. It happened to my friends' mothers, and I'm in my forties. My mum took 6 years out and struggled to find nursing work that wasn't full time shifts. I agree it's harsh though - it's probably got worse since then.

I am in Cheshire.
I do think taking a break for longer than 6 months is career suicide. I have noted all the teachers who have not returned after maternity leave at my sons primary school. At the very most, one teacher returned one day a week after the third child. So, where are they all now? Doing other things maybe?

Freelance is a great idea, if you have a skill or service to offer.

Had an interview today for some exam invigilation work, so we will see what the out come of that is.

I think how the economy is doing makes a difference. For my mums generation there was no maternity leave etc but she basically wanted to go back "properly" although part time in the 80's when the economy was booming and found it relatively easy.

She retired a few years ago and she thinks it's harder now.

There aren't restrictions on when businesses can be open, when they can insist on employees working (eg you can't refuse to work Sunday's now it used to be optional AND attract extra pay).

Admin is an area I've worked in extensively and even many admin jobs now expect eve/weekend working there's very few mon-fri 9-5 jobs let alone school hours jobs - that's why when school hours jobs DO come up they're swamped!

DD does hospitality as a pt job although you could do it full time.

As she is self employed and is concentrating on other things she picks and chooses which days she works.
She can also pick the shifts that are close to home or those that have the hours that suit.

I agree it's a tough market out there. However, I'm recruiting for a couple of positions right now because we're expanding. We're a great company, good conditions, pay well, and very family friendly. Two observations:

1. The standard of application is terrible! Dreadful, out of date CVs, mismatched dates and very few are customised to the roles. The few that make it past first sift I then arrange to call to talk through the job and see if there's a match. This saves both of us wasting any time.

1. The number of people who then take that call when they're driving, when they're feeding a toddler, or out walking - despite it being pre-arranged at their convenience. Then, the conversation is about what they can't do, or how the job could work for them. Can't do a Wednesday as there's a yoga class, Friday mornings are mother and toddlers.

Get the job offer, then negotiate the conditions. Don't just present me with all of your problems!

Do you have a DH? Can he take some flexible working options to help you get back into a more rewarding career?

Olly yea I've read several threads saying similar and I've commented on a couple about people doing ridiculous things at interview stage too.

It makes it harder for suitable candidates to get noticed.

But also a lot of applicants that are unsuitable may well be applying because they're on jsa and have to apply for X number of jobs (regardless if there's that number of jobs they ARE suited to available in their area to apply for) to the point jsa claimants are even told they MUST apply for specific jobs even if they've neither the qualifications or experience required. It is a ridiculous situation both for unemployed people and the employers who's time this wastes.

The govt won't listen to claimants on this - but they would listen to businesses IF they complained about this.

abitwrong123 - It's a shame that people abuse the trust with home working. I often used to work from home, as did many of my colleagues, when we were not with clients and I was far more productive as was able to get things done in the peace and quiet rather than an office where you've to network etc. I do know that everyone has a horror story of people cliaming to be working and doing other things. It's a shame we have bad apples that spoil it for so many.

OllyBJolly - Equally, it's frustrating that people don't put the effort into applications and first stage interviews. They really do give Mums a bad name, especially answering calls in an unprofessional environment. I don't think applications like Linkedin help as they allow people to apply for positions with minimal effort, therefore recruiters have to sift through loads of application and as a consequence have to be pretty ruthless with their pre-selection process - funnily enough, re-entering the workplace after a career break is an easy one to throw out when you're inundated with more 'relevant' applications.

I also think that lot's of roles are already filled with internal applicants. They have to be seen to advertise externally but more often than not (and why wouldn't you) fill internally.

I also, and I may get shot for saying this, can see from an employers perspective, why it is so difficult to take Mums on flexibly. Small businesses need a job doing and they just can't afford to absorb absence/job share/flexible hours, especially when they've other hungry applicants who are, dare I say it 'straight forward'.

I love the idea of going freelance but unfortunately I don't have a skill/service to offer. I used to work in sales/client management and don't have an off the shelf skill to offer. My route would be 'business development' which usually means hammering the phones all day, which isn't my area of expertise.

I think times are changing, very slowly. I think it will be teh next generation that insist on flexible working, not necessarily for parents, but just because! Good for them I say. If employers want to attract new and young talent, they need to embrace this for the future.

From a corporate employer’s (and working mother’s) perspective...anything that is sales/client management focused is really difficult to do less than 0.8FTE. Just because you as a business can’t control when your clients might need managing! The only way I have seen it work is where 2 people have applied for a standard FT role as a “job share package” - I have made these hires twice now and they work well. (Each member of the job share works 3 days a week with a half day overlap.)

Term time only and school hour jobs only really work where you have a big pool of people doing the same job that doesn’t require “ownership” of the end product of your work. Or where there genuinely isn’t enough work for a full time role (finance/accounting, some admin roles, or very highly specialised things like being a property consultant etc). Even then term time only is really difficult - what do I do when you’re off for 8 weeks in the summer? (Not being snarky, am just genuinely not sure.) And, rightly or wrongly, “flexible” working in the corporate world tends to mean being able to deliver a full time/0.8FTE load across the course of 7 days and nights, not super compressed hours.

I am super supportive of part time and flexible work but it needs to be well set up for the needs of the role, and I also have to feel that the person working in that way is as invested in the role as I am in them. Not (as is often the case) as per a PP feeling like it is my responsibility to mould a part time role around someone else’s commitments - there needs to be a bit of joint problem solving and flexibility on both sides. I think this is why it’s much easier to go part time/flexible when you’re already working full time - there’s a level of trust there that makes it easier to not have a warm body to physically call on all the time.

That may be harsh but it’s what I think!

To that end, OP would you consider trying to find a FT role and then later on asking for a part time step down in hours?

Stealthbanana, you’re absolutely right.

I went back to work 3 days a week initially but clients don’t work 3 days! I found I wasn’t being included in meetings, which is perfectly understandable as they were taking place on the days I wasn’t there. I felt like I couldn’t do the job properly, which just isn’t in my nature. It’s not the clients fault, it just couldn’t work. Clients don’t work just 3 days.
If I’d known how difficult it was to get back in, I would have pushed harder for a more suitable role, maybe one that isn’t client facing.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing!

Agreed @stealthbanana unless you already very established you need to accept that you might have to use paid childcare unless you have nearby family. Its what most working families round us do. Kids juat have to lump it unfortunately.

I'm worried that I will never find a admin job. Currently looking for part time only admin roles due to family commitments, one child has learning difficulties and eczema, no child care help and paid childcare is unaffordable. I have applied for numerous roles, employers view my Application and mostly I don't get replies. 3 interviews out of like 30 job applications, never offered the jobs after interviews. Maybe next year depending on family situation will apply for full time roles. Really want to return to office work.
Was a Adminstrator for a few years pre children. Working as as dinner lady currently and its really crap money and fed up of it now. Dinner lady role is on C.V and I think it may put employers off too, but then it looks like I've done nothing work related for x amount of years too, tho i habe put on CV been doing voluntary admin for uncle property business. Just hope I get a part time admin job eventually but it does seem hopeless

Our team (nhs) is mainly part time school hours tto this is great for those staff members but means the hours are all condensed so office really full between 9 and 3 any work that comes in late or early is always had to be done by the full timers and hard to plan for meetings and training as there's never a day when everyone is in. It does create resentment. I think job shares would be better or working part time hours across full days. I can understand why managers prefer full timers and there is too much of 'my children are my priority ' etc which goes without saying but can mean people dropping everything all the time with work seemingly at the bottom of their priorities

thirty but if your ill DC needs picking up from school asap and you have none else to do it, what do you think should happen?

I honestly make a point of not mentioning the fact that I have young children in job interviews. Because every time I have, I didn't get it. My two mat leaves are not even included on my CV : as far as I'm concerned I was still employed, just on mat leave during some of that employed time.

I'm quite prepared to work through lunch
/not take breaks etc if it means being able to do the nursery run - but it takes an understanding boss AND colleagues to be able to do this.

Sakurasnail totally if nobody else available but I have colleagues who have family doing their childcare who will still leave if the children are ill , part timers who always seem to have appointments on working days etc ...it is hard but it is a reason why employers may prefer full time staff.

Don't full timers also leave to pick up children and have appointments during work time too though? In my experience you get a certain type of person who will use work time for other things, irrespective of whether they are full or part time.
I think you're prob saying part timers take the piss because they have more time out of work in which they should arrange appointments, for eg, but they prob have kids or other responsibilities on their days off. Everyone has the same access to evening and weekend appointments, and you can't make your kids restrict illness to non work days.
I've worked ft and pt with DC and no support, and I have to say a lot of ppl assumed I was less dedicated when pt, although I actually took less time out than some full timers with independent aged DC. May consequently be a bit sensitive about that opinion.

Sorry, I haven't read the full thread, but I don't think the job market is that dire. Well, if you are looking for full time work, it certainly isn't. I started looking for a new job on the 15th. In the space of a week, I got two interviews, multiple call backs, and was actually offered a job on Monday just gone.

I think the real issue is that employers are not very receptive to candidates without experience in that particular field, and many have not yet embraced flexible working. But this could also be because there are so many candidates for some roles; they need a way to filter them out.