parental leave denied

[user1471461798]

I work term time only and requested parental leave for 3 weeks as my daughter leaves school this year and we plan on going to Florida as it’s less money than school holidays. Anyway my employer has rejected it , stating I have enough holiday throughout the year. My argument is I am entitled to this leave and have spoken to Acas who agree with me. I should add that my job entails covering for others, sickness, days off to look after their children and also holidays! How do I deal with this?

Some people are clearly misunderstanding the concept of parental leave. It is a right to have it, it's pro rata if part-time but it still works out as the same number of weeks as the op would need less hours per week than a full timer to get a week off. She is still entitled to 4 weeks per year unpaid parental leave.
If she wishes to go to Florida in this unpaid parental leave then this is ok! It's unpaid. She isn't getting "something for nothing".
It's an employment right.

I’m not sure why people here don’t get it. OP is entitled to apply (and get) parental leave BY LAW. Law trumps contract 😫

There is a business reason for not taking leave during term time when your job is only to work during term time - hence the clause in the OP's employment contract specifying leave should not be taken for holidays during term time. To dress up a holiday as parental leave is royally taking the piss. It may be a legal entitlement to take the piss in this case, but to behave this way just damages everyone's employer/employee relationships because employers start to expect employees to behave badly and vice versa.

I did not assume I would automatically get the leave. I requested it and gave them a chance to change the dates to suit them, how is them not doing that arrogant of me? They have had no discussion or even replied in writing (which they are supposed to do within 7 days). The law is there to be used, what is the point of laws if half the population can’t use it!, Also what about others in the future, can nobody take parental leave if they only work term time?

OP has said other people who do the exact same role as her have taken leave during term time. I wonder why they were allowed to and OP isn't?

I booked the holiday in hours , so only requested 45 hours, as I said I am willing to give back 9 hours, but wasn’t given the chance.

Marthas
Parental leave can be used for anything op wants to use it for regarding her kids.
They can hardly give her parental leave if she isnt working outside term time anyway can they?

Hereyougo - instead of criticising the Op, why not read up on legislation.

It has absolutely nothing to do with her Contract, it is an employment right. Completely separate to any other leave. They cannot refuse it, they can only change the time. Within 7 days, in writing. They didnt do that. An employment lawyer would pull them to bits if she was to go to a tribunal.

As for providing cover, so are you saying Op can never have any parental or dependant leave ? What if her DD became very ill and needed a major Op, or was in hospital for a long time? She would have to go to work because no cover could be provided? Bullshit. I suspect, like roundabout, you just think she is being cheeky because she is going on holiday. You would think differently if it was a hospital stay. The reason for the leave is nothing to do with employer, she has asked, they can only refuse with a good reason.

I had to take unpaid leave when my DD had open heart surgery as a toddler. Can't remember whether it was officially parental leave, we knew it was coming but didn't get much notice in end. Thank god I wasn't seen as cheeky by my employer for wanting a few weeks unpaid leave to be in hospital with her and then to look after her until she could go back to nursery. Thank god I didnt have to contemplate resigning, just so that I could be with my DD when she needed me most. I am part time too!

The whole point of the legislation is to ensure that employers like Ops cannot just give a blanket No without any thought. I suspect in this case though it is the managers who have no idea on legislation and that HR will know the law and take a different view.

A lot of people (probably most, as they are not well paid!) get term time only support staff jobs in schools precisely because the reality of these jobs is that they are getting security of employment and some regular income plus the added bonus of what is in reality tonnes of unpaid parental leave every single school holiday. Some people still manage to get leave once in a blue moon because they have a good relationship with their line manager/school they work in. If you float around a lot of schools filling in for others but nobody knows you that well, then they will not want to bend over backwards to help you make the lives of your colleagues more difficult when you go away on holiday and leave them short staffed. Schools are struggling enough as it is with too much work and not enough money to employ enough people to do it. Better to give the leave to someone who might have a nervous breakdown if they don't get a break than to someone who doesn't need the money or the job - imvvho. However, if the OP is legally entitled, she can go ahead and take what is hers if she wants.

It astounds me how many people keep calling the OP arrogant for want her legal entitlement.

Is not a moral question of what others think op should do or what her attitude should be.

She made a request she's legally entitled to.
She didn't get the written response she should have within the legal timescale.
She wasn't offered alternative dates which legally her employer should have done.

People's personal opinions and those amazing emergency service staff who have held vigil during this snow event are irrelevant.

I had trouble with my term time employer getting annoyed because ds has hospital appointments. They couldn't grasp that clinics are often only weekly or monthly and run 9-4. That I can't always get the appointment during holidays as the clinics aren't on that week or shock horror his consultant may also be off during school holidays.

So I make a request for unpaid parental leave for the day under disabled child rules.
I use to ask for a few hours off and be happy to make it up. A few hours didn't realise them to cover me - just adjust staffing.
Now I take a whole day - and it causes them more issues as they do need to find a days cover. But they forced that issue.

Ah op, it has all become clear how the hours work. Ignore my previous calculations. Yes, you are right, you are claiming the correct amount of hours. The rest of the calendar weeks that you are taking off is your own time already. There is no reason why the time hasn't been authorised or an alternative suggested. Sounds like a department with no idea on employment law.

Read the thread and think you are being treated unfairly by some.

What’s your actual role? I can’t work it out.

You say you aren’t a teacher......

Without outing myself, I am not paid by the education authority, my wages do not come out of any school budget. The school is not impacted in any way by my absence. All that happens is the staff may have to stay on a bit longer to finish. Something I do if I am called in and there is more than 1 person off and no other cover.

I think you need to get proper legal advice, not the pseudo legal thoughts of amateurs on MN.
If you don't 'need' to work, then a consultation with a solicitor should be within your means.

youarekiddingme - the OP is asking for a nearly 3 week holiday in Florida and her employer knows that is what she wants it for. It is the OP forcing the issue here. She hasn't asked for time off for hospital appointments. As a result, there will be less give and take for everyone, everyone will have lots of official hoops to jump through just to get time off to take their children to medical appointments, and no doubt eventually it will go as far as the law on parental leave being tightened up so it can't be used by school support staff who only work in term time for term time holidays...

Some people still manage to get leave once in a blue moon because they have a good relationship with their line manager/school they work in

Omg. Seriously with this attitude. What are you actually suggesting here?

I would be so lucky to get some leave once in a blue moon if I was careful enough to make sure I had a good relationship with my manager.

Are you actually serious?

here
Considering op has already covered people in exactly the same job as her taking annual leave and parental leave why is it any diffetent for her to take the same? Other people can cover her as she did them. Why is this such a difficult concept?

No employment contract is above the law. Her manager has not responded according to the law. Here's an idea ... maybe they should have checked with HR about employment law before point blank refusing her request?

Haven't read entire thread so this may have been already covered, but would you get parental leave for your daughter even if you worked all year as my workplace allows parental leave for up to 14 years old ( older age if child disabled)

It's the law. It's to spend time with children. Doesn't say where or for what reason. Got a problem with it then contact your mp.

Can't argue with stupid OP.

user - you do affect school budgets in that if a school is using you, they have to pay the LA to access your cover. By not being there to use, you are saving the schools money but giving the unsupported staff who do not have enough cover a nervous breakdown trying to do too much work, and not enabling schools to run efficiently because they don't have enough staff...

All completely irrelevant as this is leave she is entitled to.

What do you not get about this situation?

I think 4 months is plenty of time to arrange cover for you
I would request it again

Better to give the leave to someone who might have a nervous breakdown if they don't get a break than to someone who doesn't need the money or the job - imvvho

By your ho nobody who wasnt stressed to the eyeballs woukd be entitled to leave. How di you compare how people feel? How do you quantify one persons need above another?

Op has stated over and over she isnt a teacher she isnt filling in for some burned out teacher having a breakdown. She has already covered people in her identical job having leave.

Why is it ok for them to take leave but not her?

Nobody seems to be able to answer that.

No I wouldn't be saying the same if it was for a hospital stay, how could you even compare the two? The OP is trying to find a loophole so she can go on holiday. It's hardly a necessity, which a hospital stay would be. As for the law allowing parental leave, yes the law may allow it but OP chose to take a job and sign a contract which explicitly says that no term time leave is allowed. We can't pick and choose which parts of our contracts we want to follow, you signed it so you should follow it.

I don't understand the mentality of this, you knew what the rules were from day one, how can you possibly complain about it?

I think you need to get proper legal advice, not the pseudo legal thoughts of amateurs on MN

She’s has plenty of correct advice from plenty of people who know what they’re talking about. How bloody rude and dismissive.