parental leave denied

[user1471461798]

I work term time only and requested parental leave for 3 weeks as my daughter leaves school this year and we plan on going to Florida as it’s less money than school holidays. Anyway my employer has rejected it , stating I have enough holiday throughout the year. My argument is I am entitled to this leave and have spoken to Acas who agree with me. I should add that my job entails covering for others, sickness, days off to look after their children and also holidays! How do I deal with this?

I'm not the one acting thick.

Op I do feel for you tbh. You didn't invent the law it's a real shame that people are so judgemental about it. I hope you get it sorted!

Why is it “cheeky” to request leave she’s legally entitled to?

This really is a big bear of mine. As employees across all manner of jobs/ careers we are conditioned into believing exercising our rights or using our entitlements are 'cheeky'.

Start at your start time and don't stay late - cheeky.
Refuse to do wee added extras / favours here and there - cheeky.
Work the hours you are paid for and no more - cheeky.

Only employers benefit from this and it's infuriating.

Bug bear ... 🙄

In no way is it "cheeky" to ask for a legal entitlement to parental leave. It doesn't matter how the leave is used whether that is going away on holiday or just spending time with dcs. It is a legal right for an employee to be granted parental leave if they have been employed for over a year and have parental responsibility for a child under 18. The fact that the op is term time and part time is irrelevant.
Employers can only postpone it, not refuse it and they can't postpone it for a length of time that means it can no longer be used, i.e the dc turning 18 soon.
The op wouldn't be getting paid for the time off, it's not annual leave! I don't understand why people have a problem with this?!

But yes you are, panic. We simply disagree on whether it is ever possible to be cheeky to exercise a legal entitlement to something. I think the OP is being cheeky, the OP thinks she is being cheeky. You don't. Simples.

And 3 weeks is a LONG time to want off in term time when you only work term time.

The OP is being made to feel cheeky by a culture perpetuated by people like you who enable employers to guilt people into behaving in ways they want them to.

You think it's cheeky, I think it's law and cheek doesn't come into it. You can call it a difference of opinion all day long but In an employment tribunal only one of us is right and it's not you.

Op would be entitled to 3 weeks leave even though she is part time.
This is on the gov.co.uk website
"If an employee works 3 days a week, one ‘week’ of parental leave equals 3 days. If an employee works irregular weeks the number of days in a ‘week’ is the total number of days they work a year divided by 52."

I am an employee and have a relationship of mutual trust and respect with my employer. It's give and take - it has never just been all take from them and all give from me. I am treated as a human being. This creates a sense of loyalty in me. I have worked for jobsworth employers before and it wasn't as enjoyable. If I had to resort to insisting on my legal rights I would, but I wouldn't expect to have to. Hence my original advice to the OP to find a better job with a better employer, where decisions are made more from a sense of mutual trust and respect.

And I would still view myself as cheeky to ask for 3 weeks off in term time. However, after 8 years working in the same school, I might at the same time expect them to allow it, knowing how hard I work and loyal I am generally, regardless of whether or not it was a legal entitlement.

I agree panic. You see it on here all the time, things like it being seen to be “cheeky” for someone to start work for a new employer and then have the audacity to get pregnant quickly

. Hence my original advice to the OP to find a better job with a better employer, where decisions are made more from a sense of mutual trust and respect.

1. How easy do you think jobs are to come by?
2. Where is your respect for employee right enshrined in law?
3. Mutual trust and respect is wonderful. Will you still feel that if you are ever made redundant?
4. Decisions made in trust and respect are all very well until it goes tits up and then you need the law.

Your job sounds lovely though and I am genuinely glad that you feel like that. I'm assuming a small business or similar. You are lucky. We are not all so fortunate but thankfully have rights.

Yes, thankfully we have rights. In this situation, however, the OP has specified she does not need the job and believes she could easily find something else. So, responding to her situation, I would say exactly what I said.

Btw, in my experience, Local Authorities are not much good when it comes to employment law. They are too underfunded to afford enough competent advisers. This enables bad behaviour on both sides, from employer and employee. If they cannot work on mutual trust and respect, they run into problems all the time, morale becomes low and sickness absence rates shoot up. The best employers both know the law and treat their employees as human beings. In utopia, they also aren't underfunded.

Did you make your request in writing and state you wish to take parental leave?
Of did you just verbally ask your manager and she thinks you've asked for unpaid holiday?

i requested it on the portal, there is a specific button for parental leave. After a week of no response, my manager asked me to manually fill out a form- again I asked for parental leave. 3 days later she verbally told me no. I then asked if they would change the date there and then, she said no. I then was told I would receive a letter explaining why, that was nearly 2 weeks ago, still no letter. So altogether nearly 3 weeks. The government website states to change date, i need to be informed in 7 days by writing from the original request date. My husband needed to inform his employer, so he just booked it. I’m not bothered about the mone, but don’t want to leave if I don’t have to.

Well, since they couldn't afford an unfair or constructive dismissal case, you'll probably get what you want eventually, OP.

Did you work out what you were entitled to though? It still seems to me you were asking for more than that.

i don’t work irregular weeks though, so i asked for 3 weeks x 16 hours per week, you can only book whole weeks. I was going to offer to come back early as I don’t need 3 days, but never got the chance, they flatly refused.

Again, maybe my misunderstanding is wrong but that would still only equate to 48 hours, so at a push, 2 weeks if your manager was feeling generous! Also term time only is sort of irregular I would have said, ie only 38 weeks. I am willing to be corrected on this though, it doesn't seem very straightforward.

I'm really surprised at some of the responses here. Parental leave can be used for spending more time with your children or spending more time with family, such as visiting grandparents. This is what the OP is wanting to do. Who cares if she's wanting to do it in florida? The location is not relevant to her employer.

They should be offering a business reason for saying no. From what I can see they have simply said that she already has enough holiday. That's not a business reason.

OP you need to take it to HR. Point them in the direction of the legislation and keep pushing back. They haven't offered an alternative date and they need to. It's not just a blanket no.

My DH had similar when we needed childcare for our very young children and annual leave was denied and then parental leave was denied. We went to "working families" and they were a great support at helping us through it. In the end his employer backed down. I actually found them to be much better than ACAS.

'Unpaid parental leave'

Isn't for hols in term time though

www.gov.uk/parental-leave/delaying-leave

It’s fairly clear isn’t it, they can’t deny it and can only suggest another time for you to go that suits their business better.

I’d print out the pages from that link and tell them as such. As they’re being difficult, ask for all correspondence in writing

@MarthasGinYard

The gov.uk link doesn’t say that there has to be a particular usage of it though

Your job is to cover people. There isn't anyone employed to cover you. If there were we'd have supply staff to cover the supply staff and supply staff to cover the supply staff covering the supply staff and so on. You dislike being called arrogant but it was arrogant to assume they would approve this request when your contract states no term time leave, and then even more arrogant to be so annoyed that they've told you no based on what's written in black and white in your contract. It seems you've done some research into which rights to leave you can apply to your own situation and then are angry they have refused. I'm not sure why any of this surprises you. Your contract literally says you can't have what you're asking for.