racism and nannies

[ohno]

Apologies for the long post! My nanny is wonderful in every respect. Except one. And in mine and dh's opinion it's quite an important one. Basically she has some underlying issues with people who are not like she is. She's not very tolerant and at its worst this manifests itself in the occassional comment that could really only be described as racist. I don't want to go into details but it's a sort of underlying "not quite like us" racism. I know it's a cliche but she would probably be offended if is was pointed out to her that this is indeed racism - she probably thinks "racism" is something far more extreme than her lack of understanding and tendency to make sweeping - negative - generalisations. Combined with this is my own tendency - of which I am not at all proud -that means on hearing things I don't agree with (whether from her or anyone) I mumble and try to steer the conversation elsewhere in the interest of avoiding conflict. I am not very good at tackling people, and I often regret it afterwards, because I do consider myself to have quite strong views. (I'll tackle friends and argue etc but not someone I know less well). Most recently my nanny came out with something I really shouldn't have let go - but I did. Of course I am worried about her making comments like this infront of ds and it rubbing off. So what do I do? Tackle her with specific regard to the most recent comment, wait until the next one (which could well be a long time as they don't come all that often) and say something there and then or wait until our next how's-it-going chat? Do I go in strong - make clear that we can't tolerate this in our house or try something more subtle - saying that she's probably doesn't mean it to sound like that but sometimes it does? All advice really really appreciated as this is a worry.

god you poor thing. i would find this incredibly difficult...especially if you are generally happy with how she is with your ds, apart from this v important aspect.

i would definitely say something, and sooner rather than later. maybe go in softly initially, give her the get out of saying that you know she can't possibly mean anything by it, but that it is not acceptable to you...then if she carries on, really make it clear that it is a total deal breaker...i would tackle her re the most recent comment as otherwise you're going to be preoccupied with this until she makes another one which as you say could be ages...sorry this is an awful situation for you especially as you don't like confrontation, but she may react v positively and you may not need to take it any further...hth

Well, she is spends a lot of time with your child unsupervised so there's no way you can control her not to make these comments, the only thing that I would say is that if you don't mind your child thinking this behaviour and comments are OK or the truth I would get another nanny.

It may seem extreeme to you but because I have seen the effects that racism can have on other people (I have seen two friends becoming fearful, felt rejected and grow bitter with time, it has destroyed them even if they are no longer in England), I would not tolerate a racist nor her remarks, I have actually reduced the contact between DS and his granny because she can't see why she needs to stop making racist comments... she says she is not being racist but claim to be speaking the truth!!!

Sorry meant to say that if you don't mind your child accepting her comments as the truth I WOULDN'T get another nanny...

This is really difficult, as I can see that it would create difficulties for you in having to confront the nanny. However, I think that you need to bear in mind that she is your paid employee. If this happened in the workplace, it would need to be similarly confronted. I would be really concerned that she might be passing on her views to your child and that your child would then think that they were acceptable. This would lead to problems which would be harder to deal with in the long run, than confronting the nanny now.

I would tackle her about the most recent issue and say that you have thought about the remark and that those sort of values are not acceptable in your household. If this leads to a discussion, then it provides you with an opportunity to explain the difficulties you have with her views. If it leads to an argument, I'm not sure that you should be employing her, as I would question her wider abilities.

Lots of sympathy - my friend had a nanny whio had a similar problenm and she found it really difficult to challenge her especially, as you say, she is great otherwise. Could you try and say something along the lines of "We're really trying to encourage DS to be respectful of others etc" (not put like that - you will obviously put it much more eloquently than me!)and I hope you can help. Maybe something along the lines of "He said such and such the other day and we'd really rather he didn't say things like that. Don't know if that makes any sense but I think I know what I'm trying to say. Sort of blame yourself for being a bit too politically correct rather than her for being a racist!!! HTH (probably not but good luyck anyway - so glad I don't have to encounter this!)

It depends whether you want your child really to believe that all people are equal and deserve respect, or whether you just want your child to say socially acceptable things! Unless you start telling your child that your family does not believe the things that your nanny believes, ie that you really feel the nanny is a bigot, the child will inevitably respect and adopt the nanny's views. What about getting some multicultural books, eg books about other religions and festivals, books about children in other countries, eg UNICEF do a lovely book called "Children Just Like Me", and telling the nanny to read them to your child? Your local library will have lots of books like this.

Have discussed with dh and thought a lot and - of course - read your posts and the plan of action is that next time she says anything we will firmly make three points: we don't agree, we hope she doesn't say anything like that infront of ds, and we would prefer to stay off the subject. I am rehearsing my lines, ready to come out strong, but firm. Knowing how she is in general I genuinely think she will respond to this. Turnagaincat - you sound a bit like you question my motives - all I can say is that if you knew what I did for a living you wouldn't. And you say unless we start telling him we don't agree etc - well we have - that's not in question at all. DS gets a strong clear message from us (who are the primary carers 4 days a week)about equality and always has done. The books are a good idea, thanks

ohno, I think you've made the right choice too. Sooner or later your ds is going to hear racist remarks on buses or in the street, or from mad old rellies, or from other children at school or in nursery. It's a disgrace, but seems to be a fact of life in society today. Our children always get a firm message of equality and respect for diversity at home (and from school and nursery) and when we encounter anything else - recent example - "who does that old lady think should go back where they came from" we reinforce that message. Ds and I witnessed the aftermath of a racially motivated assault last year and we've had a lot of chats about that too.
You are doing a much better thing in confronting the nanny politely but firmly, than in dismissing her over this. Who knows, your ethos might rub off on her to some extent. Good luck.

Hope it's going well, OhNo! I too think you have chosen a good route - and you will be helping your nanny's general awareness and education too - if she is sensible and sensitive enough to hear what you are saying.

Our nanny is a single Mum and looks after DS alongside her own DS. She has spoken to us about a joint approach about how we all explain different types of families - ditto our NCT group which includes a family with two Mums. Whoever our children mix with, there will always be different sets of assumptions to be explored. I tend to think that if my DS hears me ask questions or (constructively, I hope) challenge assumptions I don't accept, that he will grow up with the confidence to do the same thing.

thanks all. I'm not sure there is a right and wrong answer but I hope this works out. Our nanny is a single mum too and I have a huge amount of respect for her about how she has handled what life has thrown at her. Ironically I think it is her own resilience that has made her a bit inclined to be intolerant - obviously not with regard to race whici is a different issue, but she can also be less tolerant than dh and me, of people who haven't coped with life as well as she has, iyswim. It's easy for middle-class education-fell-in-our lap guardian reading dh and me to be tolerant. She doesn't have the time for it. Though again stress tha this is a different aspect from the race issue