Overtime for part timers

[OldyMouldy]

Have namechanged for this as worried about outing myself. But just wondering if anyone has experience of this - or any employment lawyers can advise.

Basically I work a 9-5ish office job in a FTSE250 (type of) company. I work three days a week (21 hours) and tend to do 9-5 to fit in with DC childcare but do sometimes choose to or have to flex depending on what comes up. I don't think it's relevant here but in case, performance is above expectations.

Because of a fairly unique project, I have to work two all nighters soon. Our overtime policy states that you're only entitled if you've worked over 35hours. So I've been told that even though everyone else will be getting time and a half, as a part timer I will only be entitled to normal time or TOIL. I find this hugely offensive but my boss isn't fighting it. I don't know what to do.

• It feels like they're saying my time is worth less than others'
• I'm expected to not sleep all night and be in the office but that's worth the same as a normal day.
• I am working over MY time/normal hours so it feels like the overtime policy is set up for full time staff only.

Do I have a leg to stand on? I am scared to join a union and raise it as I fear it would hurt my career. Sadly. But I am so angry. Maybe I shouldn't be. What do you all think?

Fair point, Book. But I think working a 12 hour shift at night when it's a 9-5 office job is sort of "extraordinary time" not just overtime really if that makes sense?

I agree with the general principle behind the policy, but it doesn't work in situations like this one. I'm the only full timer in my team, and if we all had to work overnight or all weekend, I would want them to get an enhanced rate too because we'd all be working shit hours when we should be at home!! It's different if it's a regular thing or just a Wednesday afternoon for example, but surely no one's so bitter that they'd begrudge you an enhanced rate of pay for giving up your entire Friday night when it's a one (or two) off for a specific project.

I don't see any reason not to send a very polite email expressing your disappointment that the unsociable hours aspect hasn't been thought of and asking if they would consider exercising discretion in this instance given the shift that you have been allocated.

If they say no, could you ask to swap to a day shift given that there is no incentive to work the overnight?

I've just realised the irony in the fact I am actually working right now (at home) for no overtime, so this is very much a 'do as I say, not as I do' situation

I will make my feelings politely clear to my boss. The trouble is she says whatever we do would then have to be uniform across the wider business (not just our team involved and having to work). She says she doesn't think those in charge will budge. She doesn't disagree with me per se.

I've also worked all night before for no extra pay to meet a deadline. But I'm just getting arsey militant in my older age I think.

It's the same for the Civil Service too where working conditions are quite generous so I would say it's a accepted practice.

I think your boss should still put it out there though, for whoever is most senior to start considering. Most policies like this aren't purposefully discriminatory, it is just no-one has asked the decision makers to look at it from the PT employee's situation before.
It sort of needs to be pointed out to them that this isn't about working an extra Wednesday afternoon, as someone said, but it about the fact they are recognising that doing a 12 hour shift when all employees are normally tucked up at bed in home deserves some enhanced pay. They have already recognised that for FT employees. What they need to understand is that PT employees are also doing a 12 hr night shift when they would normally be tucked up at home in bed. It has probably never crossed their minds to look at it like that.
Your immediate boss thinking they won't change the policy, isn't a good enough reason for her not to ask for it to be looked at.
a) she might be surprised and
b) it often takes quite a lot of 'chipping away' to change mindsets, and this could be the first 'chip', so the opportunity to look at it should be taken.

Same wherever I have worked, overtime rate not payable until you’ve worked full time hours in a week. Before that it was just paid at flat rate.

Seems shit though if they’re effectively forcing you to do it and it’s overnight :(

I worked in a law firm in the 1990s who changed the rules to this. Basically once you get to 35 hours anytime after that was 1.5 and weekends were x2.

Otherwise, part-timers were getting more than full-timers for less hours. I always thought that was fairer.

I wouldn't work overnight for less than double. but that was the 90s. Good times

I agree that you shouldn't expect overtime for time worked between part time and full time hours.

However, is this project for an external client, or is it internal company business? If it is external client work that is being charged for, you can be sure that your client is being charged at a higher than normal rate for your company being available to them all night. So your argument should be that you (and everyone else) should be paid a premium for night work.

I normally work fairly standard daytime full time hours and overtime is almost unheard of (we work flexi time and you are expected to keep your flexi balance somewhere between 2 days up and 2 hours down and work the appropriate number of hours to manage this - work more hours, you need to work shorter hours to 'lose' the extra hours and vice versa).

However, I have one client that requires me to visit them in the middle of the night once a year. I and my employer see this as a totally separate project to my normal work and I claim overtime at time and half for this work, regardless of how many hours I have worked during the normal working week. They are charged at 1.5 times our normal hourly rate for the night work and my argument was, when I had to fight for this was, 'why are we charging them extra, if it's not to pay me at time and a half'? They had no grounds to refuse after that.

It's internal Barbara... so I think it sounds like I can have a chat with my boss, say that I think the policy needs reviewing for exceptions like this and potentially for part timers (although I can see everyone's point about the issues). There is absolutely no incentive for me to do this, currently, and I wish I didn't have to but there you go. I'm lucky to have a good job with flexible hours.

Our policy is the same however in Very busy times when they need staff to come in on a Sunday, they'll allow part time staff to get double time

Say you'll not do it, overtime isn't compulsory

OP don't forget you accrue additional annual leave for any extra time worked. This can be paid to you.

Do I Maverick??

You accrue holiday for compulsory overtime or for voluntary overtime which is 'regular' and 'normal'.

Perfectly fair and usual not to pay a higher overtime rate for part timers who work additional hours within the normal working week. Otherwise they would be treating them more favourably than full timers.

However I think it's reasonably to ask for an exception to be made because it's an overnight, it's not as if you are working a normal Thursday and asking to be paid at a higher rate for it than a full time colleague would be.

Our overtime policy states that you're only entitled if you've worked over 35hours. So I've been told that even though everyone else will be getting time and a half, as a part timer I will only be entitled to normal time
That's correct. Full-timers get time and a half because they're working over 35 hours, not because they're working nights. By paying you single time, they are paying you the same as a full-timer. If you did so much overtime that you worked over 35 hours, then they should start paying you time and a half for that (although they could average that over a period of time longer than a week)

Same policy at my workplace, but then regular overtime is always available. I guess people would just have part time contracts then work extra hours as overtime rather than take full time work in the first place and would then earn more than the full timers for less hours which wouldn't be fair on the full timers.