Employer requiring women to wear skirt/dress

[howmanyusernames]

I recruit for a client who, due to their religion, requires women to wear skirts/dresses and not trousers to work.
Most of my candidates will take it or leave it, and I completely understand and respect that, but I've had one this morning who said it's a 'blatant case of sex discrimination' and breaches the 2010 Equality Act. Oh and that it doesn't reflect well on my business.....

I have read up online, and read the following in an article...

'It depends on the circumstances. When an employee of Austicks Bookshops Ltd, Miss Schmidt, refused to comply with a rule stating that female staff who came into contact with the public weren’t allowed to wear trousers, she was dismissed. However, the Employment Appeal Tribunal said it was not discrimination as the company had imposed a different but equivalent dress code on male staff. In other words, employers can treat men and women differently, as long as one of the sexes is not treated less favourably'.

Obviously I don't want to do anything wrong, so can employers as this of the female staff?

If I meet them I wear a dress or skirt. I wear that or trousers to work anyway so it's not a big deal for me. I do have to think about what I'm wearing though, if I know I'm seeing them, and won't wear trousers, but I always thought it was more me respecting their values and ethics? I'm starting to think differently now...

I would never be happy with this and it i view it as discrimination. Men can wear trousers but women can't as they need to be modest and wear dresses and skirts. I don't see any other way of looking at it other than discriminatory.

I do think it reflects badly on you for enabling and enforcing their prehistoric attitude to women.

Men can wear trousers but women can't as they need to be modest and wear dresses and skirts. I don't see any other way of looking at it other than discriminatory.

I agree with this, and I think this trumps worrying about 'respecting their values and ethics'.

Why are you enabling this? Shame on you.

This ^^

What about airlines that have all the women in uniform skirts? How does that get around the equality Act?

Helpful article on the issue of dress codes and discrimination www.personneltoday.com/hr/is-it-ever-fair-to-expect-employees-to-dress-a-certain-way/

My employer has a similar rule, also due to religious reasons, and I've resolutely worn trousers ever day since I started over a year ago now. They haven't said anything.

How are trousers immodest?

How are trousers immodest
I had a girl in my class at school who was a Plymouth Brethren and it was all about what it says in the bible, so presumably somewhere in the bible it says women should wear skirts.

At the end of the day, the only time I wear a dress or skirt is if I'm wanting to dress up nice or going to a wedding. So once every 2 years. I don't wear them every day as I find it incredibly immodest having my arse or fanjo hanging out when I'm picking up kids or on the floor changing nappies or walking the dog.

Trousers are much more modest. I personally feel that when religions and organisations state women must wear dresses or skirts, it's to limit them. Let's be honest, dresses and skirts are limiting in a lot of physical things which is where the symbolism comes from.

Floor length skirt? Ride the horse side saddle. Can't ride a bike. Messes with the pedals of a car.

It's modest because it's restricting and that's appealing on women apparently.

Isn't there also something about being able to see the shape/lines of the body that's supposed to be bad and wrong?

Are you all equally outraged at employers who require men to wear ties? And there are thousands of organisations that do require it. Should everyone have the right to wear exactly what they want at work? Or should an employer be able to specify dress codes that are considered within the norms of dress codes of society - ties for men, skirts for women?

If you take the stance that the OP shouldn't work for this employer, you'd also have to take the stance that she shouldn't work for employers who require men to wear ties because equality works both ways.

snowgirl, I think ties are outdated and ridiculous and wouldn't support a company obliging their staff to wear them

but I don't think they're a great comparison in this case

here, there is a religious rule in place that means, presumably, men can't wear skirts and women can't wear trousers. I don't think any organisation should ban either of those items for either sex.

on a practical level, it has been said many times, but I can't wear skirts (I don't want to but...) because I have terrible eczema so would have to wear tights and literally can't do that. I still have the marks and scars from my school days!

also, some posters have mentioned modesty....I think it's the opposite actually. Historically women have been stuck in "feminine" garb for all kinds of reasons, and wearing a skirt means having to worry about things like how you sit and so on.

OP I realise that you might not be in a position to pick and choose your clients in financial terms....but if you are, then I would absolutely stop working with them. Is it one of these companies that isn't officially of a particular religion but basically is? I've lost the plot how the law works on that kind of place.

I'm now wondering what big recruitment companies do about this kind of client - do they take them on? Sounds like a minefield.

Riverside the next time that you go into a bank or fly or an airline check whether the male employees have to wear ties. I'd put money on the fact that you are a customer of companies that you 'oblige their staff to wear ties'.

Personally, I don't like the requirement for women to wear skirts or men to wear ties and wouldn't want to work for an organization that is overtly religious, but I think some of the "shame on you" comments and comments that the OP is "enabling and reinforcing prehistoric attitudes to women" are unfair when those same posters are probably enabling companies which require men to wear ties. Whilst you don't think ties are a fair comparison, I know a lot of the men that I work with find ties restrictive and hot and I think that is comparable with women finding skirts restrictive and uncomfortable.

snowgirl, I didn't make any of the "shame on OP" comments, nor did I endorse them. So why are you linking them to me?

I simply said that I have thought this over myself, because of going freelance, and I wouldn't take on this client myself. That's all I said. Please don't link me up with comments I haven't made.

I haven't been to a bank in person forever and I don't go abroad, but if men want to start a campaign to stop wearing ties, just as with the high heels petition, I will support it gladly. I'm actually quite surprised they haven't done it already.

I’ve worked for many organizations that require me to wear a skirt in customer facing roles. Nothing to do with religion. All to meet gendered stereotypes of what women are supposed to look like in customer facing roles, and what men are supposed to look like.
Mostly banking sector where the ones with penises get promoted (presumably it makes it easier to work out who is the next manager when you can rule out all the skirts).

In my experience, these roles come with other issues around sex based equality. It isn’t necessarily a deal breaker for me. I have a choice whether to collude or whether to look for a different job.
Having been in so many roles where there are different rules for the sexes (and a few schools too lol) it wouldn’t occur to me that it could be illegal. I think the boys have pretty much got it nailed down that a school can insist on a girl wearing a skirt and a boy a tie, and that adult workplace uniforms can be dictated by convention.
It doesn’t make it right, but it doesn’t make it against the law...

I know one of my neighbours works for the Bretheren community (young girl, just started) and my mother briefly worked for them. I’ve had dealings with them through work.

If I ran a business where I could choose not to deal with them I would decline their business. They are not nice people to work for if you’re not one of them.

I think mamaryllis makes an excellent point. Even if one accepts the requirement to wear a tie as being an equivalent, having gender stereotypical dress requirements for no actual good business reason does give the impression of an organisation which isn't particularly enlightened or up-to-date when it comes to equality generally.

If the people leading the organisation think women and men should conform to gender stereotypes in regards to their appearance, how likely is it that they encourage female members of staff to apply for promotions, for example? Or do they think people should conform to gender stereotypes in respect of the roles they perform at work as well as how they dress?

(I think ties are ridiculous!)

Do they make their female employees wear a flower/handkerchief in their hair? Because I don’t think they do, so why do they insist on part of their religious dress code and not the rest?

adult workplace uniforms can be dictated by convention. It doesn’t make it right, but it doesn’t make it against the law...

But in this case is different. The client / employer is trying to force his religious beliefs onto ordinary workers (OP gives no indication that the business is religious, only the owner of the business) which I think may be against the law.

From CAB:
"You are protected by law from discrimination because of your religion or belief if you:
-belong to an organised religion such as Christianity, Judaism or Islam
-have a profound belief which affects your way of life or view of the world. This includes religious and philosophical beliefs, or a lack of belief, such as Atheism."

I think that OP should advise the three businesses to revise their religious-bias practices or she will drop them as clients (I wonder if OP's 'exclusive' contract has come about because all other agencies have already run a mile.)

All these people against dress codes - how would you feel about a man choosing to wear a skirt?

helpful, I genuinely couldn't give a flying fuck.

Couldn't give a shit unless it was some hideous leopard print pleather monstrosity.

helpfulperson "All these people against dress codes - how would you feel about a man choosing to wear a skirt?"

I would be fine about it. In fact I have worked with one guy who wore a skirt - it was a long time ago so he didn't have to worry about any trans shit. He also had his hair in an Alice band with not a strand out of place. Very smart (though I could never get my hair to do that)!

I'm not against dress codes in a vague sense - you know, smart, presentable, clean etc. Obviously I understand some places have to have uniforms. So I'm not anti-dress code, I guess I'm anti "making people pointlessly uncomfortable" which includes a lot of stuff.

it is possible to be smart and presentable and not be wearing a tie or skirt or high heels etc

I knew this would be brethren, I recruited a woman in my team who was leaving a brethren run business. I thought she was joking at first when she told me about the trousers! It makes me furious! I’ve advised colleagues not to do business with them as i find it disgusting they can get away with it.