Bank holiday payment for part timers

[Flyingcarpet]

I am going to be a nanny employer for 2 1/2 days at the end of the week.Should I split the cost of the bank holidays with her other employer who employs her at the beginning of the week for an equal amount of time as most bank holidays are on Mondays.
Does anyone know of the rules governing bank holidays with regard to a part timer?

Bank holidays should be paid pro-rata under the new rules that have only just come in.

Can it be time in lieu instead of payment as this is what I get from my employer? That is add together the pro-rata hours and give her this time off in a block as agreed between us.

It can be time in lieu depending on what your other holiday entitlement is.

BAsically everyone was entitled to a set amount of holiday days per year including bank holidays. Some companies give bank holidays on top of that entitlement either as days off or time in lieu.

Holiday entitlement has just been increased so you get bank holidays on top of the statutory minimum which means that some people will get an extra 8 days now.

I didn't think the new method of calculating Bank Holidays was law yet. DTI Employment: Holiday Entitlement does mention it, but only as far as it is being consulted upon.

Just checked (got a load of info yesterday at work)

It is being introduced in stages with the 1st increase being this October.

Yes, was just reading the consultation. 1 October 2007 would be the start date, if it all goes through Parliament in time (expect it will).

Flyingcarpet, you could if you wanted pre-empt the change and apply it as soon as your nanny starts. What month do you anticipate your nanny starting to work for you?

I think though that the pro-rata thing was tested in court a very little while ago (under sex discrimination) and it was found that companies should pay them pro-rata. (shouldn't be on MN so can't look it up just at the mo.)

it's the increase in entitlement that is totally new.

So just to clarify. I will need to pro-rata pay or give her lieu time for a bank holiday even though this is not a day she works for me i.e. 1/2 day pay or 1/2 day holiday (as I employ her 1/2 of her working week) for each bank holiday in addition to her 4 weeks annual leave.

I therefore presume at present on a bank holiday Monday her wage is deducted by half if she has the day off from her other employer and I therefore make up the shortfall so she has the same entitlement as someone working FT for one employer rather than a PT split between 2 different employers.

Can the lieu time be specified by me instead of pay and this written into her contract? Can I say when she takes it as her other employer will get the time off on a bank holiday whereas I will need to factor this into my annual leave so I can cover childcare when she takes this lieu time.

Also just as an aside can I set in the contact her holiday request is the same as mine - apply in August 07 for April 08 to April 09? I am unlikely to be able to co-ordinate this with her other employer, so is this unreasonable?

How much holiday are you giving her. Bank holidays can be built into the statutory minimum (which as previously discussed is changing soon) so if you wish her pro rata bank holiday Monday can be built into her normal holiday entitlement to be taken at your convenience.

Yes, you can specify set holiday dates, this is normal practice in some industries and teaching. HOwever if this is difficult for her with her other job she may think it not worth her while. What my company does is have some holiday as set dates eg the office is closed for 2 weeks at Christmas so holiday is compulsory then but have some of it as flexible.

So pro-rata of 20 days holiday plus pro-rata of the bank holidays I will set up as her annual leave.

I have to give my holidays over a year in advance but her other employer only specifies a months notice from her- can I ask her to book in advance her own weeks say half of the above exempting bank holidays under this notice period?

I know it seems unduly long but unless I book my holiday when my employer asks I can only take when they specify not through my choice and even under this notice period holidays are often refused at popular times such as between Christmas and New Year and more than one half term a year.

They do do term time contracts which would make the whole annual performance of holiday application on my part simpler but I have never heard of anyone getting one.Would while I am maternity leave be a good time to apply or is it better when I am back at work? Sorry to digress by the way.

If new changes to holiday entitlement go ahead, then Oct 2007 will see entitlement change to 4.8 weeks, and from Oct 2008 to 5.6 weeks.

2.5 days x 5.6 (weeks) = 14 days.

Could you give your employee 14 days holiday per year at present?

Section 37 of the consultation says:
"Employers would still be able to require holiday to be taken at specific times (such as a plant shutdown or on bank holidays) or to refuse requests to take leave at other times (such as busy work periods). The current notice arrangements for requesting holiday, refusing requests or requiring holiday to be taken would remain the same as at present."

So I can't see why you could not write into the contract, the same holiday request period as you have in your own employment contract. If your new employee decides to sign your contract under those terms or not, is another matter. End of the day, you need to come to some agreement and if your employer will not be flexible regarding how far in advance you plan your holidays, then it is very hard for you to allow your employee flexibility as to when they take their holidays.

Happy to give her that holiday .Just need to see how she feels about notice period for her holidays.

Hi Ive got a similar situation where i have childcare on a monday and thursday total 20 hours/week. She then works for another family who have her for min 9hrs/week on either tuesday or friday plus any other time as extra. Occasionally she has shared both families on Tuesday and Thursday. She has been receiving full wages from both employers which works out to be at £18.00hr!!
She works an hourly rate of £9.00hr. Is £10.00 - £11.00hr accetable for share?
Also she is entitled to 4 weeks leave, is this paid or unpaid?
Are the bankholidays paid? She never works them so how do you work out weekly wage if bank holiday falls on say my monday. Do I pay her for both days despite her not working and is she then given day of in leui as well or if she gets paid for day then she has to work another day in week otherwise paid for one day only.?
Im confused which having had childbirth is not uncommon!!!

Please can somebody help asap

madmum3 I would post on the nannies,childminders section. You'll get replies from both the employers and employees themselves as terms differ depending on your contract.

This is how I understand things based on my past queries:

I think 20% extra is about the norm for a nanny share but it depend what the nanny agrees to - if she has been getting 100% extra it puts you in an awqward position.

4 weeks leave is paid usually 2 weeks when you decide 2 weeks when she decides.

If her contract says she is paid for bank holidays (and this looks as if it will probably become law soon -see previous posts) she should receive a pro-rata payment for the bank holidays.So when she doesn't work she should have the proportion of her hours relative to the hours per week she is employed by you.The same should apply to her other employer no matter what days she is employed by either of you.However it will need a discussion between you and them.Difficult!

Hi Ive been talking to a very nice lady from the website www.Acas.org.uktele helpline 08457474747
She adviced me that many people are miss understanding the new law changes due to start 1st Oct 2007. Here goes i hope i make it clear!!

She explained that everybody is entitled to a minimum of 4 weeks paid holiday leave per year.
If you have a contract of employment this is when leave can differ from employer to employer.
There are 8 permanent bank hols/public days per year.

Most small employers include these days in the 4 weeks leave (limited liability)where as bigger employers can allow them to be added as extra.

Any right to time off or extra pay on these days depends on the terms of an employee's
contract of employment.

When the law changes in Oct any time off for bank/public holidays is INCLUDED in the additional entitlement.
eg, If you get 4 weeks paid leave plus time off for bank/public hols your holiday entitlment will NOT change.

She adviced me that as monday is a contractual day for my nanny, and because she chooses not to want to work,even though sometimes i need childcare on these days then she has to take it out of her holiday leave. She also does not get paid for the day unless she works.
This protects me from having to pay her for not working and another childcare for working!! This means for the weeks when a bank/public hol falls on a contractual working day, if she chooses not to work then it has to come out of her total annual leave entitlment ie 4 days this year.

However if I never need her to work on these days,as the situation for the other employer of our nannyshare, then in your contract you include these as non contractual working days. This means she is not expected to work on these days and therefore you are also not liable.
hope this helps