Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Input needed Re: dh's redundancy

32 replies

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 12:08

as some of you know my dh is being made rendant at the end of this month (july) When the company announced they were closing all employees were told they could take paid leave to go to interviews. A couple of weeks ago my husband had to have 2 interview slips signed by the HR person and she refused saying if he wanted to go to them he would have to have unpaid leave. He took about 8-10 hours off. He was not happy about this and reported the matter to the works council.

Today his payslip has arrived in the post and there is a vast chunk taken out of it in unpaid leave. pressumably they have taken ALL his interviews off as unpaid leave instead of just these 2. We are not happy, dh is talking to the HR people and works council as we speak. Usually they give him his payslip at work but this time it was sent through the post.

Where do we stand on this though? Do they HAVE to reimburse the money?

We came doiown here on a 5 year contract (over 200 miles) and 2 weeks after we moved here they announced the company were closing. Dh was advised by the works council to tak it to an industrial tribunal, but we really dont want to get involved in all that. Why asre they being so unreasonable? and what can we do about it?

OP posts:
Fio2 · 23/07/2004 12:10

redundant, sorry my typing is terrible today - hope it all makes sense

OP posts:
gothicmama · 23/07/2004 12:17

yes if someone is being made redundant they have teh right to reasonable paid leave to attend job interviews/look for work ( proof may be asked for by the employer) I would phone Citizen Advice for more details

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 12:23

yes I suppose the CAB would be a good place to start, I suppose it is what as seen as reasonable

OP posts:
gothicmama · 23/07/2004 12:24

yes it is always there and very hard to define

Easy · 23/07/2004 12:43

Fio, I guess the company are being unreasonable because they have no money, which is why they are closing. It may be that they will struggle to pay final salaries/redundancy payments.

Who told your dh that he would get paid time off for interviews? was it in writing on his redundancy notice?

Take the complaint to the person who made the statement. Make it clear that you will take legal action if this isn't dealt with. But if the company is bust, then you may not get anywhere. Remember too that if EVERYONE is redcundant, then no-one will care too much about doing the job right.

Sorry to be pessimistic about this. Don't just give up, but don't put in too much time and effort chasing it if the piggy bank is empty. Look to the future.

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 12:47

dont worry about being pessimistic easy, I know exactly where you are coming from. The HR person isnt being made redundant as she worked between two of their sites anyway and is just being made full time at the other site. The other thing is they are not going bust. They are closing this one site. they are a multi-million pound company and have sites all over the world. they were givan government money to save the site but they inputted this into projects and then moved these projects to other sites (I dont know if this is ligit either, but who cares what I think!)

I just get the impression we havent a leg to stand on because they offered him the chance to relocate to another site (although he would have to apply and be interviewed in the normal manner) anjd he didnt want to and just looked elsewhere, whereas other people seemed desperate to stay within the group.

OP posts:
Fio2 · 23/07/2004 12:50

forgot to add that they DID put it in writing that interviews would be in paid leave and the refusal of the 2 in question was verbal

OP posts:
Freckle · 23/07/2004 13:11

If an employee has been given notice of redundancy, s/he is entitled to be paid during time off to look for a new job if, by the time her/his notice ends, s/he will have worked for the employer for two years. The following employees are not entitled to paid time off to look for work:-

employees who have worked for their employers for less than two years;

overseas employees;

merchant seamen;

share fishermen;

members of the armed forces;

police officers.

There is no definition of how much time the employer has to give but it must be reasonable. What is reasonable will vary according to circumstances, for example, the difficulty of finding work in certain areas, the time and travel involved, and the range of jobs an employee is looking at. In addition to the employee's statutory rights, s/he may have rights from her/his contract.

An employee who is under notice of redundancy is entitled to time off to look for work, whether or not s/he has an appointment to attend a specific interview.

An employee is entitled to be paid her/his normal wage for the work s/he does during the redundancy notice period. If the employee is entitled to paid time off and s/he takes time off to find work, then s/he is entitled to be paid her/his normal hourly rate up to a maximum amount. The maximum amount under statute is two fifths (40%) of the employee's normal weekly wage. This is the maximum amount that can be paid during the redundancy notice period while the employee is taking time off work.

This means that provided an employee does not take off more than two fifths of her/his normal weekly working hours over the whole of the notice period, s/he will not lose any pay. For example:-

An employee works 40 hours per week. S/he has a four-week notice period. Two fifths of her weekly hours is 16 hours, so provided s/he does not take more than 16 hours off to look for work over the four week notice period, s/he will be paid her/his normal wage.

Under her/his contract, an employee may be entitled to more paid time off than s/he is entitled to under statute.

If the employer unreasonably refuses to allow the employee time off work, or refuses to pay for this time, or the employee considers that the employer is restricting the amount of time off unreasonably, the employee can apply to an employment tribunal within three months of the day on which s/he wanted time off. The tribunal can order the employer to pay the employee up to the maximum amount.

So, check your dh's contract, which might allow for more than the statutory minimum. Even if it doesn't, the employee has still acted unlawfully and your dh is entitled to his wages, provided he fulfills the above criteria.

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 13:13

oh ffs! he worked there for 18months! thanks freckle anyway, that was just ideal and

suppose we should just be grateful he has anoither job to go to

OP posts:
Freckle · 23/07/2004 13:21

However, they did put in writing that time off for interviews would be paid and this therefore forms part of his contract - as he might not otherwise have taken the time off. So he should still pursue the extra money.

Bellie · 23/07/2004 13:23

Fio following on from Freckles message I think if I remember my employment law correctly if you have it in writing that dh would be allowed paid time off, and then they have just deducted the money from his wages, they are in breach of contract and also the deduction of wages act. Both of which can be claimed at a tribunal.
I know what you mean about not wanting to get involved in a tribunal they can take ages to get to be heard and often youhave started a 'new' life by then.
However it may be worth mentioning the above employment acts to HR as it will tend to get them worried and think that you are taking legalo advice.

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 13:25

he has just rang apparently they ARE going to reimburse 'some' of it. Which I suppose is good. He would not have gone to useless interviews if he knew they werent paying him. Mind you, how would he have known they were useless beforehand!

OP posts:
Easy · 23/07/2004 13:28

Fio, he should take a copy of his letter which guaranteed payment for time off, along with his payslip to his line manager, and/or to the manager of the HR person who wouldn't sanction it.

he should be Very assertive that this is a term of his redundancy. Make it clear to the manager concerned that you are prepared to go to whatever lengths are necessary to get this corrected.

If this term was put in writing then the company must stick to it. oes your dh know if other employees have been treated the same way? If yes, get them all to make a big fuss about about it.

Bellie · 23/07/2004 13:28

That is good news although frustrating that they are still going back on their word and not paying all of it......

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 13:31

the pther people he works with have been struggling to get interviews. My husband works in a very specialised field and really for jobs it does entail moving around. The people he works with are holding out for local jobs. One or two have gone into to different fields of work altogether. Whereas my dh has been looking anywhere for 'that' kind of work. Sorry I cant be more specific but I cant discuss what it is!

OP posts:
Fio2 · 23/07/2004 13:32

they made over 100 people redundant aswell and they have only employed 7 internally despite saying they could relocate within the company

OP posts:
Fio2 · 23/07/2004 13:32

bitter moi?

OP posts:
ks · 23/07/2004 13:34

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Fio2 · 23/07/2004 13:35

of course sweetheart

OP posts:
sis · 23/07/2004 15:41

Fio2, as Freckle says, if they said they would pay and then don't pay, he could claim unlawful deduction from wages and/or breach of contract. So legally, he is in a strong position and whilst I understand your reluctance to make an employment tribunal claim, it is worth threatening to do so - they won't know that you may not follow through!

Good luck - I hope you get the money, and soon!

littlemissbossy · 23/07/2004 15:59

Very sorry for you Fio and your dh. I've just read all this thread - great advice from Freckle - you are legally entitled to every penny of the salary they wrongly deducted. My advice to your dh is put everything to them in writing (and send recorded delivery), so that he has evidence of his discussions with them in case he has to go to an industrial tribunal. Also, you made the point of relocating for this job which lasted only 2 weeks? Why the hell did they employ him if this was the case?

BeckyK · 29/07/2004 11:59

Hi there a little late to the thread but may be able to help.

Two things.

One they definitley can't deduct those monies from his pay.

Two if they knew at some level within the company what was going to happen within the organisation ie redundancies they should not have advertised the position and if they did so this was also illegal.

I would definitley go and see citizens advise and get the forms to put into a tribunal. They are really not that bad and are quite informal if an individual is bringing a claim themselves. In fact I have seen opposing lawyers and the tribunal panel help claimants. (I am an HR manager so have seen it from the other side)

Good luck and I hope you get sorted out either in your new home or old one.

anorak · 29/07/2004 12:12

Hi Fio, sorry, no advice, I don't know anything about employment law, but just want to say I hope things get better for you, lots of symp and love xxx

bundle · 29/07/2004 12:15

fio, try the ACAS helpline, they were v good on the phone when i needed employment advice recently. it's free & confidential 08457 474747

Fio2 · 30/07/2004 07:59

Thanks everyone we actually find out today whether they are going to refund anything they have deducted off. Apparently the confirmation of pay for interviews was verbal (sorry my dh didnt think to ask for wrtitten confirmation) and they have actually deducted alot of pay off all the employees. He gets his redundancy cheque today so we will find out if they have reimbursed him any. Then on Sunday he is officially unemployed!!! well not really he has a job to go to but I am going to call him unemployed ALL WEEK until he starts his new job on the 9th August!

Dont know whether we even have the energy to take the matter further. the company have just been complete w***'s from start to finish and I think the redundancy, although stressful at the time, has most probably pushed dh to be more ambitious and things have actually worked out better for him.

Thank you everyone for you support and well wishes, it really is appreciated

OP posts: