MNHQ here: 'Pregnant then Screwed' is launching a campaign (and inviting you to a march on Halloween) - tell us what you think

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

Some of you will know of the campaign group Pregnant then Screwed, which came to prominence a few years ago by highlighting women's experiences of pregnancy and maternity discrimination in the workplace.

On Halloween, they're holding marches in locations across the UK (London, Belfast, Cardiff, Manchester, Newcastle and Glasgow) to 'demand recognition, respect and change for working mums'. In deference to the day, they're inviting people to turn up dressed as mummies - the Walking Dead kind.

Here are the changes they're calling for. We know that in the past MNers have expressed support for more and better exclusive, paid paternity leave - but we'd love to know what you think about this list:

1. Increase the time limit to raise a tribunal claim from 3 months to (at least) 6 months for pregnant and postpartum women.

2. Require companies to report on how many flexible working requests are made and how many are granted.

3. Give fathers access to 6 weeks non-transferable paternity leave paid at 90% of salary.

4. Give the self-employed access to statutory shared parental pay.

5. Subsidise childcare from 6 months old, rather than 3 years old.

Over to you - and if you'd like to join the march you can find all the details here.

Thanks
MNHQ

I follow this account on instagram and also FlexAppeal with Mother Pukka.
It seems you are both doing very similar things. Would it be sensible to work together to have power in numbers?

I would have rather had less hours per week free childcare from and earlier age rather than 30hours when they get to three. I don’t need 30 a week. I needed 15 a week from when they turned one.
A lot of people are priced out of working by expensive childcare then by they their child is three they are out of the job market anyway and struggle to get back in.

Surely it makes more sense to help reduce the cost as soon as they are ready to go back after mat leave even if it is just for part time hours.

All of these proposals sound great.

The whole point of a civilised society is to look after every single person regardless of their life situation. It's brilliant if you are in the top 10% of earners, hooray for you. Only a sociopath would claim the 90% don't deserve an equally high standard of childcare and life for their children.

Increase the time limit to raise a tribunal claim from 3 months to (at least) 6 months for pregnant and postpartum women. definifely but this is not enough. Tribunals are becoming less affordable and harder to access and employers know this and are more prepared to take risks

2. Require companies to report on how many flexible working requests are made and how many are granted. definitely

3. Give fathers access to 6 weeks non-transferable paternity leave paid at 90% of salary. not sure about the non-transferable bit and when would they use if? It’s no good during the early months if mother is breastfeeding

4. Give the self-employed access to statutory shared parental pay.agreed

5. Subsidise childcare from 6 months old, rather than 3 years old.agreed. Far better to share the subsidy across all parents with children in childcare

The whole point of a civilised society is to look after every single person regardless of their life situation. It's brilliant if you are in the top 10% of earners, hooray for you. Only a sociopath would claim the 90% don't deserve an equally high standard of childcare and life for their children.

This in spades.

Some gobsmackingly selfish and/or shortsighted opinions from pp.

I'm in favour of all of these, including better Govt provision for childcare - in line with other, more enlightened countries

I'm very much in favour of the whole campaign and think a lot of the issues really need pushing as it's not until you are in the situation you realise how widespread the discrimination is.

The only demand I am a bit about is number 3 and the 6 weeks paternity. Most women I know have had enough of their other half by week 2!!

backoffsunshine "Condoms, abstinence, a husband who stays at home"

So that means I should be discriminated against because I became pregnant despite using contraception and my partner leaving me when I was 8 weeks gone? I had to have 2.5 months off sick from a new job which was then used to attempt to prolong my probationary period so I would effectively have to start again when returning from maternity leave. Luckily I managed to sort that out before having the baby but mostly because I mentioned the words "discrimination" and "tribunal" to the (female) head of HR. Also, because I started a new job a month too late I'm not entitled to statutory pay despite paying NI since I left uni and had to move back in with my parents because I can't live on maternity allowance.

1. Completely agree, 3 months is ridiculous. A year would be reasonable plus paid costs for the tribunal.
2. Not sure. Will this really help?
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. A million times yes. Literally any contribution would help me go back to work after a year. I earn too much for any early help but not nearly enough to pay for childcare on top of living costs. I've no idea how I'm going to afford to go back to work and will probably have to ask my parents for yet more help.

I can't believe I'm the only person with a helpful husband..?! He was an absolute godsend when I was recovering from the birth. He cooked and cleaned so I didn't have to, and slit the childcare 50/50. I don't understand what breastfeeding has to do it with it either sorry NeverTwerkNaked I wasn't just using my husband to feed the baby in those first 6 weeks??

Brilliant list of demands. Good luck.

@SuziePink

One last time for the hard of understanding.

You are pregnant. You have a responsibility to your child. You should not expect the state to provide for your_ offspring.

It isn't discrimination to expect parents to pay for their children.

You had 2 1/2 months off sick from a probationary period (best case nearly 50%) and used a few buzzwords to bully HR into continuing your employment and benefits. If I had the power, I would be gambling significant resources into the legal team fighting your tenuous claims. You worked for ~3 months and expect the company to foot the cost of your failed contraception.

#1 you have done yourself no favours.

#2 you have done women no favours.

Do you also get annoyed when men make the board, make more money and occupy the higher tiers of business?

@backofsunshine I think you are making the assumption that all self employed people are running £1m turnover businesses. To put the demand about self-employed parents into context; my partner is a self-employed sports coach who only gets paid for term time. After having our baby, he looked after him for 6 weeks during the summer holidays. He was entitled to absolutely nothing, no paternity, no Jobseeker's Allowance-nothing! With the rise in the 'gig' economy more and more people that should be given a full time contract with benefits- are not. Many cleaners who are barely on minimum wage are classed as 'self-employed' so what happens to them when they become pregnant especially if they are single mothers? You cannot simply say that the self-employed should not be entitled to anything. I get the impression that you aren't aware of the current socio-economic climate or how hard it is for this generation of parents. I have a good job but all my salary is going on paying £950 a month just for three days of childcare and I don't even live in London. When you then count the fact that we are paying £1000 a month in rent and £400 a month on travel cost, how the hell am I supposed to save for a deposit and get on the property ladder? There are a huge number of families in the U.K. Who are at serious threat of being homeless as there is no security for renters and this is statistic has doubled in the past 5 years. We don't live in the utopia of the 1960s when one salary was enough to live on and be financially comfortable until the children went to school. I will 100% be marching on October 31st to support all the demands because each one represents a group of people that are suffering just because they dare to create the next generation of tax payers that will be taking care of ALL OF US when we are old and frail!

@Theosmum83

Firstly, people don't 'become' pregnant. I don't think I need to go into details but it isn't a becoming.

You haven't "dared" to create the next generation. Do you think that having children was a duty or was it because you wanted them?

I am planning on taking care of myself when old and frail. I've pensions and assets. I do understand that many in society now expect that burden to fall on others but that seems to support my argument as opposed to yours. How am I wrong?

How are you saving to support yourself when too old to work?

Uni nope most men I know have been imvolved / important in caring for their partner and new baby and add holiday on to their paternity leave, often going back part time for a few weeks after the paternity leave is up so the family can ease in to the new arrangement.

I don't know why anyone would have a baby with someone they'd be sick of having around after two weeks

I do agree that men should take more time off when their partner has a baby - my birth injuries after having my first meant there was no way I could function on my own with a baby after a paltry two weeks. I'm just confused as to why existing holiday provision isn't sufficient. Seems to me it's more of a cultural issue (men expect to go back after two weeks and don't expect to have to do much caring) rather than the opportunity to take time off not being there.

I don't work as I can't afford to. I'd like to fight for the rights of those who do though.

@backoffsunshine that’s great you have assets and pensions but for many they don’t expect others to provide for them in their old age but for various reasons that is what will happen. For example a colleague of mines pension is worth less than he paid in. He is of pensionable age and his pension is worth a pittance. He has worked hard all his life. Does he deserve to be thrown into the scrap heap because he didn’t make in your mind adequate provision?
What about people who’s partners leave and they are left with a small child and paying for childcare is crippling them?
You’ve done well for yourself but people in their 20’s will struggle to have assets and amazing pensions. Those that do will be in the 1%. If they don’t have children who will care for you if you end up in a home?

batteries my husband took two weeks SPL plus a weeks holiday and was entitled to two weeks paternity also so I do agree men can take their holiday to stay off.

However I was entitled to the 5 weeks holiday I'd earned during the first 6 months I was off and the 5 weeks holiday I'd earned during the second 6 months I was off as it spanned two holiday years. I was also entitled to 52 weeks off in Mat Leave, 20 of which was paid in my line of work. I was lucky enough to be able to save enough money to take a full year as that's what I wanted to do. I'm also incredibly lucky to be able to go back part time in a job in which many people can't get flexible working approved.

I understand that I'm the one that had the baby but it seems excessive that I can take that much time off but my daughter's other parent can't.

1. No, three months is plenty of time to log an ET claim. Others with older children manage.

2.Again no. Most flexible working requests declined I'd imagine are where the person has only thought of themselves and their wants rather than the employer and the business needs. Where the latter is done I'd imagine more go through.

1. Shared parental leave is already in place, no need to have both parents at home for long periods of time.

1. Part of being self employed is earning enough to cover time off, you can't have the tax perks and then expect employee benefits.

1. Subsised childcare is already available for low earners via tax credits. It's a cost of being a parent so should have been part of the financial planning.

dare to create the next generation of tax payers that will be taking care of ALL OF US when we are old and frail!

You didn't dare create the next generation, you chose to get pregnant.

We have some fabulous maternity rights in this country compared to others yet so many think it should be more and then the state should pay for everything the child needs on top.

The future tax payers statement is irrelevant, given how many entitled people we currently have who feel their choices should be financed by all how many of their children will actually be tax payers?

@backOffSunshine you sound like a nasty piece of work. There was absolutely no need to insult me. You've made lots of assumptions about my situation, most of which are not true. I did work enough before going on leave to pass my probation and management were wrong to try to insist I must start my probationary period from the beginning when I return. I did not "bully" HR. I was continually left out of meetings when I came back from being off sick because I was seen as only being around temporarily so there was no need to involve me despite the fact I had the expertise needed to further the projects... is that not discrimination? My boss then asked me to increase my hours when I was 7 months pregnant. I raised these issues in the proper way with HR but was basically told I was imagining things and being too emotional (by a male HR person and my boss' boss, also a man), hence going to the head. The guy covering my maternity leave sent emails which were later forwarded to me that started "Gentleman" which is pretty unforgivable in the 21st century.

yellowmakesmesmile 1." No, three months is plenty of time to log an ET claim. Others with older children manage."

If you are sacked at 6 month's pregnant and are ill during the pregnancy (for example), how is 3 months adequate? Extrapolate that to being sacked at 7 months etc. Do you have any idea how stressful a tribunal against your own company is (remember it is not just for those that are sacked...you may still be working there). Does a pregnant woman need that stress?

OP, I would campaign for a year.

Yes because saving on childcare would automatically mean women would reinvest the savings into their retirement plans

We should be aiming for equality. Men seem to manage to return to work, the majority of women that don't didn't want to anyway.

Childcare is a joint cost when part of a couple and is known before TTC. Yes it's expensive in the early years so save in advance rather than expect other tax payers to essentially fund it. It's a cost of having a child and having a child is always a choice.

Im a working mum and i totally agree with @sunshine .

I am fed up of dealing with the " i have children therefore you need to make my life easy for me please " crowd.

We should be aiming for equality. Men seem to manage to return to work, the majority of women that don't didn't want to anyway.

Unaffordable childcare is creating a glass ceiling for women. Women tend to already be in lower paid employment than men. With the high cost of childcare, it makes more sense that the lower paid earner gives up work to look after the children (or you cannot afford to pay the rent/mortgage). It isn't a choice.

Too many women near me have to give up work as they cannot afford the costs of childcare. Few people can afford the £350 per week per child for childcare near me.

I'm not sure that I like the idea of non-transferable parental leave for men. I was in hospital for a week after having DD and it would have been much more useful if my DH could have started the leave when I came home.