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Original poster

Perternity leave

45 replies

kks · 03/04/2007 14:57

My partner is a baker and he has his own bakery. One of the bakers that work for him has a wife who is pregnant. The baby is due in May and the baker is going to take 2 weeks perternity leave as he is entitaled to.

During the 2 weeks he is off my partner will have to cover him and that means going in at 3am and as hes the boss not get home until 5-6pm. My partner has asked the baker to fill out the perternity form and where it says 'the date your leave will start' he has wrote "when baby is born". That means some day in may the baker is going to phone up and say his wife is having the baby and he won't be in for 2 weeks meaning my partner is going to have to start at 3am on short notice. Surely this baker has to give an exact date?

OP posts:

Original poster

kks · 03/04/2007 15:52

Anyway i just wanted to know if anyone knew if an employee had to give an exact date as to when he was going to take his perternity leave. Its seem he doesn't and thats all i wanted to know.

OP posts:

runnyhabbit · 03/04/2007 15:54

Agree with bizzydint - what would happen if this baker had broken an arm etc? Your dp would have to manage then.

BizzyDint · 03/04/2007 15:55

yes, the supermarket thing was only in jest, i know they aren't really bakers as such. my point, as you've gathered, is that managing paternity leave is just another part of being an employer. i wondered what his contingency is for other instances of absence, but as you've said, he covers it himself. i'm sure he's aware of how to manage sick absence too. and that you can sack someone for off sick too often.

Original poster

kks · 03/04/2007 16:01

I think he would love to sack him but unfortunatly finding a baker who can do the job and keep up to speed has proved very difficult. Like i said before this baker phoned in sick the week my baby was born and my partner was going in at 3am plus having a new born baby in the house. It was a very hard time for me because i was scared of having the new born and with my partner out the house for 14 hours too. Even though i had other people come over its not the same as having your partner there.

I think i resent this baker for this as he is lucky enough to get to spend 2 weeks with his wife.

OP posts:

BizzyDint · 03/04/2007 16:02

yes. the perils of being your own boss i suppose.

Eddas · 03/04/2007 16:07

If he's that crap why do you still employ him anyway and TBH as someone else said your dh is the employer and the pitfalls of owning your own business are that you have to take the crap if afraid. Yes it would be lovely if he could give you a date but as he can't then it's just one of those things.

And at as it's his second it's not likely to be late, er hello, where did you get that Can safely say that lots of people I know who have two or more have been late so really not sure what kind of sense that makes. Plus being due with my second and now being overdue(ok only one day but still) think that was a very strange comment. Sorry for the slight rant there but people assume such odd things

Original poster

kks · 03/04/2007 16:12

I was told by a midwife that first babies are usually late and second, third etc are usually on time. She probably got that from 'statistics', i hate statistics by the way!

My partner had been an employer for many many years so he does know the rough comes with smooth. I have explained why he can't just sack the baker.

OP posts:

Eddas · 03/04/2007 16:18

kks, i hope your mw is right

I know you explained re the crapness but i can't ever understand why employers don't get rid of crap employees. My dh works with a bunch of useless people(well most of them are) and it's so frustrating that they don't do something. And at my work there's is one employee that is worse than a trained chimp There must be a reason they can't do anything as employers but i just don't get it.

EllieKthePA · 03/04/2007 16:24

you can get rid of useless people, you just have to do it legally. the law doesn't force you to keep on people who are regularly absent, people just assume it does because of the current compensation culture.

MrsWho · 03/04/2007 19:45

My friends just had her 4th and was induced at 2 weeks over and it still took 2 days!

EllieKthePA · 03/04/2007 19:53

no hope for those of us awaiting our 2nd then

smittenkitten · 03/04/2007 20:30

KKS - i agree, it's impossible to run a small business these days. i guess you have a decision to make about whether an unreliable baker is better than being without one or recruiting another. You can sack someone for sickness absence/misconduct but need to follow a process. If you can really prove that he was on the golf course when he phoned in sick then you can dismiss for gross misconduct after a disciplinary hearing.

Original poster

kks · 03/04/2007 20:55

For starters i was just saying what a midwife told me that was all about 2nd babies being late. She was probably wrong and basing her knowledge on statistics.

Unfortunatly you can't just sack an employee, i believe you must give three written warnings first unless it is very serious ie;theft or violence etc.

This baker phones in sick for all sorts of reasons. He gets doctors notes saying he has a bad back because there is no way of a doctor proving his back isn't bad. The thing is he does this, then when he has had the day off he comes in to work and the back is better instantly. The other baker he works with knows he has golf the day he phones in sick. When i said he phoned in sick when my baby was born he actually told the other bakers wife on the phone he did it cause he hates the boss (my partner). And it was pay back.

Other then the phoning in sick part he does the job and its proven very hard to find a new baker thats any good.

OP posts:

EllieKthePA · 03/04/2007 22:36

why is it that people won't listen to sensible advice?

why ask us if when we answer you just ask again \link{http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk?topicid=2310&threadid=302703\on a new thread?]

EllieKthePA · 03/04/2007 22:36

why is it that people won't listen to sensible advice?

why ask us if when we answer you just ask again on a new thread?

Original poster

kks · 04/04/2007 09:35

I am sure you will all say you own businesses when i say this but most of the response i got was from an employee side. Thats not a snobby comment i just mean because the way people responded was one sided and i can tell because of the "Why don't he give and work in a supermarket" and "why don't he get someone to fill in for 2 weeks" and "train the shopstaff". Its not till you have to deal with staff and the shit they cause in general that you realise. Most people don't have a clue. Thats all i am gonna say as you will all throw fire at me now.

OP posts:

Original poster

kks · 04/04/2007 10:19

i must apologise for my little outburst there. i have nothing against employees as i was one before i was a SAHM. i was just getting wound up so again i apologise

OP posts:

chocolatekimmy · 04/04/2007 10:36

KKS - are you for real? I ask that because you say 'surely the baker has to give an exact date' and 'I find the whole thing unreasonable'. Hello, this is a baby we are talking about!

The guy is entitled to 2 weeks paternity leave whether you like it or not. Can start from date the baby is born or anytime within 56 days after its born if he so wishes, he can say either from the day the baby is born or from 3 days after the baby is born or even 3 weeks after the baby is born.

He is also entitled to take time off for dependants (unpaid) for the day/days she goes into labour and gives birth. This can be seperate to paternity leave.

I can't see how you can be so narrow minded about the issue? Its life, it happens so deal with it and get over it.

Yes I appreciate your DH is running a business but he should have a contingency plan in place anyway that covers staff absence for any reason. What would you do if someone was in a serious accident and couldn't come to work - moan about how selfish they were for having the audacity to take time off?

The other thing is if the guy in question is a jerk anyway, then get rid of him. If proceedings had been started when the issues occurred disciplinary action could have been taken and he would be well on the way to either correcting his behaviour (having had the kick up the backside and told what is expected of him) or going to the next level and ultimately dismissal. DH hasn't helped matters by not dealing with it and many people will do all they can if they think they can get away with it (which he has).

Sounds like DH needs to get some HR advice to deal with him.

BizzyDint · 04/04/2007 12:41

kks- i do deal with staff dear. i'm an employee yes, but i'm also a manager. i do have to deal with being left short staffed, i do have to deal with suddenly someone taking paternity leave, i do have to deal with staff who have high levels of sickness. you are now coming across as very high and mighty which is a shame when people have been reasonable in what they have suggested to you. my point about the supermarket has been justified. your dh needs to have a contingency plan for any short term absence. that is a basic in business planning.

Eddas · 04/04/2007 14:57

KKS, please don't feel like people are trying to put you down or be nasty, i genuinely think everyone who posted was trying to help and for what it's worth some of your comments were weird. Especially the one about the 2nd child. If you ask a question then you should accept the answers given. If you aren't prepared to listen then don't ask. Sorry if that's harsh but it's true.

Your op said does he have to give a fixed date for taking paternity leave. The answer is no. The rest of the thread is really just commenting that if he is a bad employee why not find someone else. Yes I appreciate that would be hard but maybe worth it in the long term.

Also, yes maybe all the people responding are employees but speaking for myself I am an accountant and have to deal with the self employed everyday at work and run payrolls etc so know the laws on employees rights. So please don't dismiss the comments made. They are all valid and backed up by links etc that people took the time to find for you.

It is very very hard work to be self employed and they do tend to work more as does your dh but that is what they sign up for. Self employment is not an easy option, especially if you a running a shop. Which IMO is the hardest of all the trades. No rest ever, and i am speaking as the daughter of a newsagent so believe me I know. People should think long and hard before being self employed. And especially hard if you are going to employ people. Unfortunately the law doesn't change depending on the size of the business and as a small employer you will feel penalised at times. It is just the reality of owning your own business.

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