They bought forward my last day. Now I'm really confused!

[PuffinNose]

It's Sunday. The project I was working on was unexpectedly stopped (nothing to do with the company or me) and they decided there was no need for me to stay around to my agreed end date. They were a tad more polite but basically it was "You're no use to us now and we want you gone so get lost".
They said they would still pay me for the time I was due to be working plus the agreed redundancy.
They pulled me into a meeting this afternoon to tell me.
This suits me but I'm confused because does this now become a settlement agreement? Or is it gardening leave? Or what? And what implications are there of those?
From comments on here, the whole redundancy thing was a dodgy anyway. I don't really care to be honest as long as it doesn't affect the money I get and isn't classed as dismissal.
They wanted me to sign an agreement. I refused because I was a bit in shock about it and didn't have anyone with me. They wouldn't let me take the document with me because it was "confidential". They are meant to be emailing it to me and my union rep. I don't know if that means they were up to something or what. I didn't even look at it because I had no intention of signing it so it may have been completely above board.
We've agreed that I'll take one week as paid leave while we get everything sorted. I was pretty much escorted off the premises because they didn't want me to go back to work, presumably they didn't want me talking or people asking about it. Instead they pull me into a meeting and are seen to be making me leave afterwards...
Not really sure why I'm posting this because there is even less information than my previous posts!
I guess I wasn't really expecting it quite like this and I feel like I have had even less control. It's re-emphasised what they think of me which hurts. It also makes me feel like I'm in the wrong when I absolutely wasn't. There are only a couple of people I'll be staying in touch with and they know what has gone on but I'm concerned what everyone else thinks. It's stupid I know.
Plus, I guess I'm now unemployed.
Oh, and someone else is planning on putting in a grievance against the same person now. They started one before but decided to drop it. They have a genuine case but I think they are hoping they'll have the same outcome as me ie get paid to leave. The ironic thing is, they refused to give evidence for me! So I have mixed feelings about this.

Background - I put in a grievance. Work decided I couldn't continue in the same post because it involved working with the subject of my grievance. No other jobs for me go into so was told I was being made redundant. My actual post still exists so apparently it isn't actually redundancy but that is what all my paperwork says.

Sorry. That was long.

The wanted you to sign it then and there; and when you asked to take the document away to read and consider more thoroughly before signing, they wouldn't let you?

V dodgy.

Yes it does.
It's just all a bit weird because this is a big company, a household name, with proper HR, legal advisors etc. I just don't get how they can be so dodgy. I am just not worth the potential negative publicity or legal grief.
The actual HR lady won a big award a couple of years ago.
So confused!
My union rep is also confused. We spoke this evening and she didn't know what to make of them not giving me the letter to look at outside the meeting. She thinks they are hiding something bigger which is why they are going down this route. But my boss is not worth the grief either. He gets results but I've heard some things about him which makes him a complete liability. I don't know if he has something on them?
Getting into conspiracy theories now though I guess.
They have put a lot of pressure on me to do things in the past but with this they seemed to be OK with me not signing it and were quite credible with it all.
I was in shock though so...
We had a big restructure recently following a site closure and I think there is some confusion about the actual process for me, compared to what happened then.
I think they know I can take things further (union are certain I have a case) so are trying to keep me quiet.

:/ Hoping I haven't said anything to identify where I work. :(

Hi puffin

If I were you I would seek employment legal advice during this annual leave week. They have clumsily tried to manipulate/engineer it in such a way that it is not a dismissal, a sort of redundancy (but not) and what could be classed as a Settlement Agreement (but not). It's a complete sham. And cloak and dagger too. Especially putting you under duress on a Friday afternoon to sign a document before you've had time to discuss it or consider the implications.

Companies are not only bound by employment law, they are also bound, if they are a good fair employer, to ensure the employee knows their rights. They have failed you.

If it had been a redundancy (as they had muted from your previous post) or even a Settlement Agreement they would have been very clear about the nature of the payment and given you time to seek independent advice. OK they've now given you a week's paid leave, but only because you forced that on them by not signing the document. When a company is forced to do the right thing, rather than doing it because it is just and fair, they need to be brought to account. In your case, that is to settle with you fair and square, openly and transparently.

Fact is, they have deliberately positioned it so you can't take them for unfair dismissal, because they haven't dismissed you. My advice is to seek legal advice, so you can give the complete picture about your current situation. Don't resign, sit tight, they will have to keep paying you until the matter is fully sorted through solicitors one way or the other.

Check if your home insurance give you legal assistance as this usually covers employment issues. Be very wary. When DP was dismissed his employer (large well known company) got up to all sorts of dodgy practices.

Could it be they were asking you to sign a compromise agreement? That is what it sounds like to me.

It isn't called a compromise agreement anymore. It was renamed Settlement Agreement in 2013. What i suggested to Puffin is that if it was a properly administered SA, they wouldn't have marched her into a room and demanded she sign on the dotted line with no further right to reply.

A SA is meant to be a negotiation between the two parties for a mutual parting of the ways.

Thank you. Yes, after thinking over night I don't think I can rely on Union advice so will speak to a proper lawyer. Frustrating really as I thought that was what I was paying then for. :/

We've already used up the mortgage lawyer hours! The guy there was nice though so we'll see if we can go back.

Meanwhile I will have a think about how to word an email to work saying I'm not committing to anything at this moment until I get some legal advice.

I think the problem I have is that I WANT to leave. I'm worried that if I kick up a fuss they'll decide that they don't actually have a leg to stand on and will suddenly find me another job there. I really, really don't want that.

Yes, it is my career that I worked hard for and I'm very unlilely to find another role with that pay or hours that suit us so well. But I've also completely lost my confidence. They've made me believe that I am incapable of the role which I've been doing in various companies for over 20 years with no previous issues. They've destroyed that for me. I don't want to do it anymore. The project I was working on was stopped because of funding (Brexit!) but I am still really scared that it was because of me.

I was texted this morning to say the other person who was thinking about putting in a bullying claim walked out last night. She's not due in until next week so no one knows if she's coming back. I'm assuming she won't. I suspect she'll be submitting a grievance now. I want my stuff signed and sealed before anything starts with her just in case they realise they need to tread carefully with both of us and revoke anything they've said. While I'm on leave I'm still employed and no one has signed anything to confirm I have left and during the notice of redundancy period they can find me another job.

If they do make me stay, I'll have to leave for my own sanity anyway. Although union say I have an ET case I don't have the energy for it and I don't want everything dragged out. Obviously I would need to and have nothing to lose.

Getting rid of me through redundancy/settlement agreement or whatver, suits me. As long as I get my redundancy pay and it doesn't impact on my reference or future jobs I don't care tbh. Tax wise, I don't earn enough to be affected either way.

So I don't know what can be gained by making a fuss and making them decide what it is that they are doing?

On the plus side, my son's child minder has had a family emergency so being off for a week has worked out well.

If i were you I would be very susccinct in what you say from here onwards. Don't give them any words they could twist and use against you. Try not to think of it in terms of "making a fuss", you are considering your options and your rights as an employee.

I would write to state that you are seeking legal advice as regards the situation they imposed on you on Friday 2 Sept 2017. That will stop the clock. They are unlikely to make such a decisive move by offering you another job in the company. Your position from here onwards is that they have broken the trust and confidence intrinsic in the empliyment contract. You don't need to say this to them, but keep it in your mind that is what they have done so it is ludicrous if they try to wrongfoot you with a different job offer. Once they know you are seeking legal advice, they will probably go quiet, waiting for a legal letter.

Once you can talk through with an employment solicitor, they will likely suggest that they liaise on your behalf to get a fair payment. They can give you an estimate of how much it would cost, so you can make the decision accordingly if you want to instruct them to represent you in your case.

It's fine that you want a Settlement Agreement. What you don't want is for them to fob you off with a derisory sum, which is probably what they tried to do yesterday. You need to be treated fairly, and currently the company has the financial power and want you to think you have no choice..

What you now need to do is reset the balance so you gain some of the control - it's only fair.

Thank you Daisychain01.

Hopefully all the nonsense will end soon and I can just move on.

I hope it gets resolved soon for you. All the best!

If you talk to a solicitor then your union will no longer offer support on the matter. Is have third party rules. This could be difficult as most employers will not allow solicitors into meetings that union reps are allowed into. Speak to your union about your concerns first and ask for a more senior person if necessary.

@daisychain01 It has been years since I had anything to do with policy so was not aware of the change. Good to know.

@OliviaStabler - it was a name change during David Cameron's government. There was a problem with the word "Compromise" - neither side in Employment disputes was particularly enamoured by the thought of compromising so they decided a "Settlement" was less controversial.

Settlement agreements are generally written so that you can't then sue the company for unfair dismissal.

That's fine, but in this case you probably could get them for unfair dismissal. Given that you don't want a job with them, you can just use that as leverage (gently ish, you want to get what you want without scaring them so much that they panic and do something you don't want, like undo the redundancy) to push up the settlement agreement.

Redundancy money is tax free up to about £32k I think, so can be a pretty major bonus if you can push it up as normally you'd be paying 12% NI + 20% income tax on anything you get.

That's fine, but in this case you probably could get them for unfair dismissal

How can the OP get them for unfair dismissal when they havent dismissed her? the redundancy situation doesn't seem convincing as the OPs job hasn't been eliminated. The situation seems on shaken ground - the company holds the power and are calling all the shots.

Redundancy payment tax free threshold is £30,000

J, as discussed yesterday.

It looks like I've messed up and have outed myself. I need to make it clear that the company have always put my interests first and have tried to look after me fairly. My boss has been dealt with in line with policy and if I am aware of any other issues I now understand that I need to raise them formally. If I have said or implied differently I was mistaken. Everything I have posted is only my interpretation and may be wrong and as such does not represent the organisation.
Thank you everyone for all the help you've given me. I need to say that the matter has now been concluded and due to confidentiality I can't discuss it further.

You could ask HQ to take this thread down and they will do that to protect confidentiality.

Good luck in the future.

puffin that reads like a statement your work have told you to write, not your own words.

You haven't identified anyone and you are actually allowed to ask for support and advice.

Hope it goes ok OP. You certainly haven't outed the company.

Good luck