Am I correct that they cannot withdraw an offer of employment just because I don't want to opt out of the working time directive?

[MeadowHay]

I have a conditional job offer, still undergoing relevant referencing checks and things and have to go for an occupational health assessment sometime as well as I'm disabled. I have received my contract to sign but I have noticed it includes an opt-out from the Working Time Directive. I do not wish to opt-out of it, and see no reason to do so given my contracted hours are to be 37.5. I know it's illegal for your employer to force you to opt-out, so would it therefore be illegal for them to withdraw the offer of employment just based on me wanting not to opt-out? I am also frightened they could see this as an issue and withdraw my offer through some other guise (potentially disability related - but I am pretty sure I can do the job just fine and would need very few, small adjustments to do so).

I called ACAS to ask them but they weren't very clear .

Why even bother? Why is it relevant? The job is only 37 hours a week and the directive thing is a standard thing.

You are overthinking this

Because I never want to be in situation where I feel pressured to work more than 48 hours a week especially given how poorly I am going to be paid, and I have no idea what the work culture is going to be like in my new job?

Maybe I am over thinking it, but as a disabled young person it is scary going for your first ever full-time job. I have been discriminated against multiple times even in the job-search process; I want my working rights to be upheld but I also want to make sure I have a job.

In your situation I think it's more important to consider what the contract states about overtime, as opting in doesn't guarantee that you won't be asked to work over your contracted hours as the 48 hour limit is averaged out over 17 weeks. So you could be asked to work 1 week of 48 hours (depending on your contract) and you would still be under the limit. Although if longer hours are likely to exacerbate your disability after seeking advice from OH then they shouldn't.

Disclaimer: bit rusty on the old 48 hour thing, haven't had anyone not opt out.

It doesn't say anything about overtime other than any overtime won't be paid unless a special arrangement is made. Which I guess means they can't make me do overtime above my contracted hours anyway?

It depends what the job is.

In my job we were given a form to opt out on getting the job but people didn't and it wasn't a big deal.

But you said you don't want to opt out of the directive?

either way it's highly unlikely that you will be forced to work above your contracted hours

The key thing is

• are they making it an explicit, clear condition of the job offer, putting you under duress?

Or is it an option they are covering on a form, but allowing you to exercise your right to stay in or opt out.

There is a difference.

If they are "holding a gun to your head" so early in the employment relationship, either they are crap at recruitment or they're running a sweatshop where they only want employés who are browbeaten into signing away their rights, which immediately weakens the employee's standing in the power relationship.

What evidence do you have they are giving you no alternative and will hold it against you. Do you feel OK starting with an organisation that makes you fear you won't be treated right?

It doesn't say anything about overtime other than any overtime won't be paid unless a special arrangement is made

That's a reasonable arrangement. Employers don't want to pay masses of unapproved overtime, when it could be that some employees are dragging their heels during the day and staying an extra 2 hours to get the overtime or coming in at weekends when they could have completed the work during their core hours.

It cuts both ways

Daisy No evidence at all, I just never place my trust in the stronger party in a contractual relationship (wisely I believe). It was just part of the employment contract they sent me. I'm sure it's just a standard thing they've put in that they give to everyone, to try and cover their own backs. But I don't want to opt out of it, but I'm worried about that not doing down well if I ask them to change the contract to remove that part before I sign it.

Xpost Daisy I didn't say it wasn't reasonable - I was just responding to the other PP's comment about what my contract says about overtime, as that is all it says. I'm not concerned about payment for overtime as I don't see how I should be regularly doing any overtime anyway...hence why I'm concerned about why they would feel the need to have me opt-out of the WTD in the first place .

I think it's standard to offer the opt out.

They've sent you a contract which means they are offering you a position with those terms. Part of those terms are the option to opt in or out of the WTD.

They can't withdraw the offer of employment as laid out in the contract once you've signed it because of the option you took when given a choice as part of that contract.

I have it in ones I do to save me the admin hassle of working out everyones average hours but no one works anywhere near it. Its just standard. If in doubt have a quick chat with person who sent u it to clarify.

If it's in the contract and you refuse to sign then you aren't agreeing to your terms of employment surely.

This is quite standard, saves the company an admin load in working out hours. It's seldom about the actual hours you're expected to work. Is it a shit company and you're concerned they will make you work too long?

"This is quite standard, saves the company an admin load in working out hours. It's seldom about the actual hours you're expected to work."

This. It's highly, highly unlikely they actually intend to make you work 48 hours a week average for 17 weeks.

You There is no option/choice in the contract - it forms a clause of the contract of employment that I opt out. I would have to specifically request they sent me a revised contract without it in, if I didn't want to opt out. I can opt-in again later but there's a 3 months notice period which is long.

But thanks for all the replies. I still feel uneasy but I think it makes sense what you all say about admin etc and I can't see how I could be made to work above my contracted hours really anyway.

Thanks everyone. As you may be able to tell, anxiety disorder is one of my health conditions!!

From another angle, if it's a small company they may have used an outsourcing HR company to provide them with their contracts and employment docs and this may have just been included and so they send it out automatically. Without showing us the employer name, if you can post a pic of the document I'd be able to tell as I've worked with a couple of the bigger ones and they use certain styles and fonts!

I don't want to do that for privacy reasons, but it is a large international company with in-house HR.

Be Careful! I opted out when the clause was in a new job contract thinking it would be exceptional circumstances. I ended up doing 50-60 hour weeks, ill with stress and had to leave after 5 months. Took all my self confidence away as well as all the joy on life. Some employers will take advantage, believe me 😢

In your position I would make a quick phone call to HR and ask if that clause can be removed.

Alternatively sign the contract and take the job. Once you are in post as per the guidance below send a formal opt out notification.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-working-hours/weekly-maximum-working-hours-and-opting-out

This thread is over 6 years old. I doubt OP still needs advice on that contract.

@prh47bridge thanks I didn’t check 😂

You are right, I don't! Haha