Tummy-sleeping baby can't sleep how she likes at nursery

[rolymoly]

DD2, nearly 7 months, has just started at nursery. For quite a while she's been sleeping on her tummy at home. She never slept for very long when on her back except if I lay down with her, so I decided (after reviewing a lot of mumsnet threads) to let her sleep that way. She is now very strong and can hold her whole upper body weight on her arms. Knowing that 89% of all cot deaths take place before 6 months makes me feel comfortable with this decision, though I was anxious about it earlier.

The problem is, nursery aren't prepared to put her down to sleep on her tummy. They told me that if my HV would say it was OK they would be prepared to do it, but the HV has just spoken to them and they are still saying no. I think the HV has said that she thinks it is up to the parent and the nursery should go along with my decision, but she's not prepared to make a positive recommendation that dd2 sleep on her tummy--which I can understand.

Meanwhile dd2 has been waking up after 30 minutes almost every nap. The longest sleep she's had has been 45 minutes. She has usually been getting a total of 90 minutes sleep at nursery, spread over three naps. At home she usually gets at least twice that, in two naps. Every time I've picked her up she's seemed really tired, and I'm really worried it's preventing her settling in properly. Although the nursery staff think she's getting on fine, I think she seems really out of sorts. She's generally a very happy, very contented baby and I think they don't realise how different she is from her normal self. It's making me feel really upset and I don't know what to do. Especially since I may actually be in the wrong here.

What a nightmare. I can see why they're cautious, although I do kind of feel I would like to tell them to lighten up. Can she not roll though? I thought the danger was only when they aren't capable of rolling. They wouldn't be willing to put her on her side would they? My dd would never sleep on her back, so I let her (bad mother). I think the risk to a strong baby after 6 months is infinitesimal to be honest, but that's not much help really, is it.

Trouble is, telling them to lighten up is not likely to change their minds . She can roll when she's playing but it's quite a struggle for her, and she just doesn't do it when she's in her cot. Sometimes at night she'll get herself on her back and wake up and cry--I go and turn her over and usually she goes back to sleep fairly easily. I think I and nursery together probably could train her to sleep on her back just by always putting her down to sleep that way, but it would probably take a while and be horrible for us all, and I'm really reluctant to impose that on her for the sake of following rules.

I suspect they'll be just as firm about sleeping on the side, but I suppose I could ask. She can definitely roll from her side to her front!

That's the idea

Would really appreciate any other advice. Even if it's to tell me that nursery are doing absolutely the right thing. DD1 goes there btw, and is really happy, and generally I respect the staff a great deal and think it's a good nursery. (Guardian articles notwithstanding.)

I think it is just a question of time before she can roll over from back to stomach anyway and then there is nothing you can do so problem solved. I think the nursery should go with what you want either way!

Yes, but how much time??? Anyone know how to teach a baby to roll?

i think what the nuresry are doing is basically absolving themselves of the responsibility should anything happen(which is obivously isn't going to!).

i can see their point but surely if you were to put in writing that you are giving permission for her to sleep on her front then they would let her?

if they relly refuse then as others have said on here it's just a matter of time till she can roll and then she will turn herselve over anyway!!

Much as I sympathise with you, I'd do exactly the same in the nurserys position. They have to follow official recommendations whereas parents can use their discretion. I know it's highly unlikely but if anything were to happen and they had being doing something against official guidelines they could be sued.

I agree with Maisystar - put it in writing..they should respect your views even if they don't agree with them

Me too- I really can't see how they could possibly be sued if you have given permission in writing.

I already have put it in writing--in fact, at first the manager said that if I put it in writing it would be fine. Then she spoke to her superior who made the condition that if the HV said (in writing) that it was OK then they would allow it. HV says they should accept my written instructions, but won't put it in writing herself. It feels like everyone is passing the buck to everyone else.

I know dd will eventually be able to turn herself, but I don't know how long that will be and in the meantime it's making me feel awful about leaving her.

It's a hard one, isn't it? I can see why the nursery were initially reluctant. But I don't think any nursery should follow the rules to the extent of upsetting a baby, or disrupting her sleep. I understand that nursery staff aren't even allowed to wake sleeping babies, because that's classed as neglect. So isn't refusing to let a baby sleep in the position in which she is comforable, with her mother's permission, neglect?
Presumably you have explained clearly to nursery that dd2 is out of sorts and over-tired ? they may think she's fine but they hardly know her yet and you certainly know her best. Personally I think I'd insist that they follow my clear, written instructions that my baby is put to sleep on her tummy. I'd include something about absolving them of any responsibiity for problems arising from tummy-sleeping, if that makes them happy. Why not contact the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths and get advice from them? That may help to convince nursery to follow your instructions (or, I suppose, convince you to let nursery stick their guns):

guidelines

If you get the OK from FSIDS and they still refuse to let her tummy-sleep then I think I'd make an official complaint (God, I'm such a crap mother I don't even know who you would complain to ? Ofsted? Lucky I don't have any problems with ds's nursery).

When my dd was a baby she could only sleep for any length of time during the day on her tummy. I used to give in occassionally but, after all the publicity on back sleeping, I would put her on the sofa and sit next to her all the time. I know it's easier said than done but I wouldn't have let her sleep on her tummy without monitoring.

that is ridiculous if your dd can get over by herself how on earth do they intend to prevent her from doing so?
I have a tummy sleeper as well, she has pretty much from 3 weeks old.
I would broach the subject again and ask for a more senior person, also get a letter from your doctor if you can.

I've just reread some of the thread. It reminded me what we did with dd on a night. I wasn't prepared to risk front sleeping but we went for the side option with rolled up towels to prevent her rolling one way or another. Once she could roll herself over onto her front I was worried because she couldn't roll back again but the general advice then was that once they could get themselves onto their front there was no need to worry.

No ideas for the nursery problem, I can see why they wouldn't want to, after all official recommendations are superior to mothers instincts (and don't we know it when we do something the HV doesn't agree with?!) as far as they're concerned.

Both my DSs followed the guidelines and slept on their backs fine, but DD just wouldn't. I persevered until she was about 4 months, much to the dismay of everyone, then put her on her front one afternoon and watched her like a hawk for two months until I was confident enough to let her sleep on her front through the night, by which time she could turn anyway.

DS2 turns onto his front to sleep now, and I don't worry at all, and if he'd been a 'tummy' sleeper too, I would be comfortable with it much earlier than with DD.

Hopefully it won't be too long before your DD can turn herself. No ideas how to speed it up, but you could possibly try and encourage it by putting her to sleep on her back(?), or letting her play on her back with toys to the side of her, so she has to reach for them.

Hi there, sorry this is becoming a problem for you. The whole transition to work is quite anxiety provoking anyway and if anything is not quite right its easy to focus on it and feel very miserable and guilty about it (so I'm finding anyway - for me the anxiety is ds2 not taking milk at nursery - all my precious ebm ending up down the sink!).
I'm not sure I can offer any practical advice, but ds1 didn't sleep well at nursery either, usually had about half the amount he would have at home, went down to one sleep a day from nine months and was often hysterically overtired at bedtime (nothing to do with sleeping position, just the way he responds to a stimulating environment) I coped by obsessively protecting his nap times on non-nursery days, and in the long run he has been ok really.
One thought does occur to me though - do you get on with any of the GPs at your practice - you may find one willing to write in support to the nursery as I'm sure they will recognise that any risk is absolutely minimal (based on the age of the baby, the fact they are checking on her regularly etc etc). In fact I wonder what the figures are for cot death in daycare settings anyway - its not something I've ever heard of....
I personally don't think the nursery's stance is reasonable based on the magnitude of the risk - I think they are panicking rather.

Thanks for the support everyone. I do think you're right Elliott: to some extent all my anxiety about this transition have become focused on this particular issue, perhaps beyond it's real significance. Who knows, she might not sleep well at nursery every if she was on her tummy. At the same time, I feel that this is adding to the difficulty (for both of us) of what is already a difficult period.

I talked to the manager again on Friday afternoon, and she says she is going to talk to her boss again today. I don't know if this will do any good but she did keep telling me not to worry and that something would be worked out, so maybe she is preparing to persuade her boss to allow them to go along with me. Otherwise I might be able to get the GP to write a letter (though I don't know any of the GPs well). I get the feeling that both the nursery and the HV are going by generalised advice which is obviously and rightly cautious, and not really looking at all the risk factors together and the specific situation of this individual baby. (Although the HV does say it's fine for me to authorise tummy sleeping, she is not prepared to authorise it in writing herself.) Maybe a GP will feel more able to make an individualised assessment of the situation.

Should be 'has become focused' of course