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Original poster

Reasonable adjustments- can an employer force them on you?

40 replies

rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 14:26

I have a psychiatric condition, employer knows already have some adjustments, at my request. I requested, discussed, we trialed and was made permanent. This was a change to work in terms of a particular shift pattern.

I have been full time for two years, since I started job and although I have managed, I have been unwell recently and decided that I just cannot manage full time work long term (I also have tow small children). So I requested part time- 3 days for this reason. I was referred for an occupational health report to see what else could be done. I discussed 3 days with the doctor, he seemed to agree. This was accepted by the head of my department.

Now HR have seen the OH report, which although mentions my request for 3 days, ends with a recommendation that I work reduced hours over 5 days. This was never discussed in my OH meeting. I can't do this for financial reasons, and because of childcare means that I won't actually gain anything, in terms of time for me to rest and do positive things for my mental health (e.g. exercise).

My HoD is a bit bemused- he is happy to allow 3 days as it works for the department, but HR are banging on about it being against medical advice. Can they refuse my request because a doctor (who I never met- a different one writes the report) as recommended something I don't want? Can I accept with the acknowledgement that it is against medical advice?

OP posts:
confusedandemployed · 27/07/2017 14:31

I would ask the oh to clarify why their advice is 5 short days and whether they would equally advise 3 normal length days (or indeed in terms if your health this would be preferable, for the reasons you have outlined). I would be amazed if they didn't change their tune.

But yes of course you should explain why that doesn't work for you, i.e. 5 short days wouldn't be reasonable for you.

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 14:44

They say it based on the OH report which just states that it would help with energy levels and maintaining routine. It also mentions exercise- but I wouldn't have any time to do that over 5 days!

Thanks I'll go back to them.

OP posts:
AreWeThereYet000 · 27/07/2017 14:57

5 short days or 3 long days would most likely be the same hours so cost the same in childcare and I can see the theory in you having more energy in the work place if you are in for shorter hours at a time.

However if you feel that 3 days is best for you and has been agreed once I would go back to them explaining this. Maybe worth contacting the union if you are part of it

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 15:14

The childcare costs aren't the same as my children are both at school. The school charges a flat rate before school, so even if they only do 5 mins of breakfast club it costs the same. I would therefore end up dropping them to school and having less than an hour to myself, before having to drive to work. My commute is an hour, so there are significant fuel costs and parking costs as well.

Unless I could get home by end of school the same would happen- I'd have to pay for an hour childcare even if they only did part of an hour. In the school holidays I'd have to take whole days off to cover only a few hours of childcare.

If i have whole days off I can sort out the food shopping, the laundry, the mountains of school reply slips etc. I can have a nap and go for a run and do meditation. 5 short days means I am either at work or looking after children. There is no time for me in there.

OP posts:
Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 15:16

Also it means I am "in" work every day, so it is on my mind, stressing me out every day. I think its the fact that it was never discussed so now it's been thrown at me like a curve ball.

OP posts:
Flossy1978 · 27/07/2017 15:32

With all due respect, things like childcare, doing washing, travelling for an hour to work, etc are your problems to deal with. Your employer or HR don't need to care about such things and rightly so.

But if you are mentally unwell, it is this you need to focus on to get those three day a week workload, no all the other stuff which is really no concern of your employer/HR.

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 15:49

I am not expecting them to concern themselves, but my family life/commute are real aspects of my life, along with work that I need to manage my mental health with. Working full time does not give me enough head space to balance 2 children/shopping/laundry as well as things that are good for my mental health like exercise and meditation.

The weird thing is my manager has agreed to it (and would be happy to agree to a standard flexible working request for 3 days) and this was never discussed with me. I am now panicking that 2 working days before my 3 days were supposed to start this might be retracted in favour of something I didn't ask for.

I was very honest that it was about balancing my time at work, time at home and rest time.

OP posts:
Flossy1978 · 27/07/2017 16:36

I am guessing your round trip to and from work adds up to two hours a day? Surely that has a big impact on your mental health - causing tiredness.

Why can't you look for a part-time job closer to home? That would practically wipe out most your issues with balancing your life/job.

I have mental health issues too, so I understand. If I were in your shoes, I'd find a job closer to home. I would not he able to drive two hours a day.

Yes, your boss likes the solution offered. I guess you will have to fight to get what you want.

I

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:17

My boss agrees to what I want. It is HR that are being weird.

I look every day for a job closer to home. Firstly they are all usually full time and there is nothing that pays anywhere near what I'm on.

It's quite a niche role and there aren't any similar jobs closer. And I love the actual job and there isn't an organisation closer that I could do this role in. I'm not warning mega bucks, around £30k, but even vaguely similar jobs pay much less. All the jobs are advertised full time and most I would be qualified for are £16-20k full time, which isn't manageable for us financially.

There are many reasons I want a new job I've been looking for months and months.

OP posts:
StealthPolarBear · 27/07/2017 18:30

Flossie in terms of reasonable adjustments then surely they should be considering her work life balance?

AalyaSecura · 27/07/2017 18:46

I would say that HR aren't really doing anything wrong - it is difficult to go against medical advice. But OH really shouldn't be recommending a solution that they hadn't discussed with you, and it doesnt acknowledge that the individual often knows what they need for their condition - so I agree with confused, go back to OH and ask if they'll support the 3 day plan. Be ready to explain why that outcome works best for you but only from a mental health perspective, they'll be less influenced by practicalities unless they're framed in the context of your mental health.

Hotbot · 27/07/2017 18:50

It's quite unwise as a manager to go again o.h. Advice. I,would ask for another meeting with them to first her discuss your condition and the insole working across 5 days will have in it .

Hotbot · 27/07/2017 18:51

Further discuss and impact

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:52

Medical advice given by a doctor who has never met me? The doctor I saw DID agree to the 3 days. From my own mental health perspective having to spend 2 hours commuting every day to spend 4 hours there seems so much worse. And I won't get a lunch break if I work 4 hours.

What's fucking ridiculous is that if this was JUST a flexible working request they would say yes!

The place is toxic and going there every day but being paid 0.6 would send me over the edge.

OP posts:
Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:52

Medical advice given by a doctor who has never met me? The doctor I saw DID agree to the 3 days. From my own mental health perspective having to spend 2 hours commuting every day to spend 4 hours there seems so much worse. And I won't get a lunch break if I work 4 hours.

What's fucking ridiculous is that if this was JUST a flexible working request they would say yes!

The place is toxic and going there every day but being paid 0.6 would send me over the edge.

OP posts:
Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:54

It took 6 weeks for the last occupation health appointment. I am supposed to start 3 days on Monday. I have made arrangements around that. I can't magic up any childcare now. Which I know isn't their problem, but they told me it was agreed so I cancelled the holiday club and Dh cancelled leave.

OP posts:
FuzzyOwl · 27/07/2017 18:54

Yes they can enforce the change. However, what you need to do is request another appointment with OH and explain how this is not beneficial to you and that you want to maintain your current status quo. If possible, get a letter from your doctor (you may have to pay) to back you up.

Ultimately though, your employer has a duty of care towards you and they rely on OH to provide them with medical advice that is believed to be beneficial to both of you.

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:55

Sorry I'm really stressed by this.

My GP agrees with 3 days, the OH doctor I actually met agrees, my psychiatrist agrees. But a random OH doctor who I've never met has now fucked everything up.

OP posts:
Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:57

Well great, if they enforce the change I will have to quit because I will not be able to survive financially. And then we'll lose our house. Excellent. Fuck. And I have one day to work this out.

OP posts:
HattiesBackpack · 27/07/2017 18:57

Hi OP I think you are going to have to go back and get a new letter from OH which details what you require. I used to work in management and in a case like this there is no way that we would agree something that isn't in the doctors written recommendations - from a covering our own arse perspective.

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:58

Ironically my recent period of ill health was triggered by them ignoring a recommendation from my last report. So they can choose when to follow it.

OP posts:
HattiesBackpack · 27/07/2017 18:58

(Cross posted with FuzzyOwl)

Original poster
rebelnotaslave · 27/07/2017 18:59

I do appreciate the advice. Sorry, I'm rather agitated and upset.

OP posts:
CotswoldStrife · 27/07/2017 19:01

I can see OH's point tbh. They are concerned about you working full days when you've said that is an issue and it needs to fit around their shifts, which they have already made an exception for by the sound of it.

I would speak to HR (you, not your boss - make sure that nothing is being filtered through a third party!) and see if they can refer it back to the OH. If the report is recommending that you don't work a full day it will be difficult for HR to do anything other than that.

HattiesBackpack · 27/07/2017 19:02

Understandably so.

Are you in a Union? They may be able to help fight your corner.

do you have any parental leave left?

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