Appeal against dismissal advice?

[Bandit1]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the wall of text but I'm having a miserable time with my employer at the minute and would love if someone could give me a little bit of guidance or even tell of their own experience going through this issue.

I'm trying to keep things pretty vague but will clarify anything if needed.

Can anyone give me advice about appeals against employment dismissal.
My appeal will be held with the same manager that I've been having issues with and it really concerns me about how fair this procedure will be as she has already lied about other things that have been said.
She also seems to know next to nothing about employment law so she counteracts things with incorrect information.

Has anyone been through an appeal procedure with an employer before? What is the process of a meeting like this and will just me and my employer be present?

I'm not a union member so I can't have anyone sit in with me, but can she? There's one other employee who could be an impartial note taker but she isn't willing to get involved at all.
The situation is so frustrating and I'm so stressed out I feel constantly on the verge of tears, so any advice would be more than helpful

Thanks guys xx

Call ACAS, they helped me massively! It's all free and they really know what they're talking about.

I've talked to ACAS so much they must be sick of hearing my voice haha.
They have been very helpful so far however they have said there isn't a standard appeal procedure so they couldn't give me advice on what to expect.
I'm really trying to prevent going to a tribunal as I just can't afford the costs involved and even if I could I would be self representing which I really just don't feel able to do

And I forgot to add, yes I've been through it before. I had in the meeting the head of my department, my line manager and my colleague (who I asked to come with me) The latter two took notes on it throughout. The meeting ended in angry exchanges, followed by a need for me to write a letter anyway. The person I was making a complaint about was not present in the meeting just her boss. Hold your own, do not accept what they say if you don't agree with it and if things get heated call a 5 min break, which my line manager had to do twice during mine.

An appeal should be heard by an independent manager, if at all possible - is there no one senior to yours/separate from the situation of the same/higher ranking as they should hear the appeal, not the manager involved.

In the letters and the grievance policy of your company they should state who you can be accompanied by in the meetings, I believe, according to the ACAS code of practice (which all employers should adhere to as a minimum) you can be accompanied by a colleague, not just a union rep, but I'm happy to be corrected.

Thanks saltandpepperpig, that's probably the way mine will go although if I ask for a break I suspect my boss would either end the meeting altogether or deny me a break .
I also suspect she'll schedule it for a day when she knows I'll have an antenatal appointment and wouldn't be able to attend.

the appeal should not be heard by the person who made the decision to dismiss

There is no one else above her, the company consists of myself, another employee and the manager. That's it.

I do believe you're correct about who can accompany me, however the only other employee wishes to remain impartial. One of the disputes of my appeal regards a position that has been offered to her anyway so I doubt it would be appropriate to include her.

How long did you work there for? What was the reason for the dismissal?

Appeals can be heard by the same person who took the outcome decision if the employer is a small organisation but it's always best not to do this.

I've worked there for just over two years.
Ok, the full story is;
I'm due to start maternity leave soon, because of this she has had to get two people to cover me. She has stated to me in a phone call that in order to do this, she has to restructure the business. She's now denying this was said. In the same phone call I was then told my contract would be changed from a 37.5 hour contract to a 25hour flexible contract and the two staff to be taken on would be put on 16hour flexible contracts. The phone call then ended with her saying that I would receive the terms of contract change the next day.
That next day she gives me a sheet of paper saying that these changes will take effect from xxx date, I said I wouldn't accept the changes and she told me I either have to accept or be made redundant. I didn't accept and she told me she would start the redundancy process. This is all without being given a consult period of these changes or given the opportunity to ask why they had to take place etc etc. She also tells me in this meeting that a 37.5 hour position is available however this has already been allocated to the other member of staff, again without consult.

The next day she talks to me again and I bring up the issues that I have not been allowed to ask questions or voice concerns, I haven't been given sufficient notice of changes and i asked why I wasn't considered for the management position as this would be a more suitable role, it was stated "think of this from a business perspective, you're going on maternity leave" I then said that this was discriminatory, she stated it was not the whole reason for her decision when asked what the other reasons were she declined to state them. That same day she sends me an email of termination of contract stating that I have refused all other alternative options and this is the final solution. I replied asking to clarify if this was termination by reason of redundancy, she said no and stated that redundancy had never been discussed (I have no idea why she is claiming this as ACAS said she can legally offer redundancy and then decide against it) I then disputed this and further added the discussion we had in regards to not being selected due to discrimination, just because I wanted a paper trail of it. Again she denied this. I then gave my letter of appeal against the decision.

I know this sounds unhelpful and will not be straightforward, but you can't reason with crazy. Why would you want to continue working there anyway? Is mat pay above stat minimum? I think your only way forward is a tribunal and hope she settles out of court.

Oh, I have no intention of remaining or accepting contract changes. And no standard maternity pay. I'm still just shy of the end of the calculation period so initially I was trying to postpone anything going forward without correct procedure to allow me to reach the end of this period after I've finished termination notice.

It's important to seek legal advice, but I'd say you need to go through the Appeal because that stands you in good stead regarding Tribunal to show you've complied with all the steps in the process and taking things as far as you can whilst in post and within the procedures of your employment.

The stronger you set yourself up the more amenable your employer will be to an out of court settlement. But to get to that point you need to get legal advice because they can help with the points of law (changes to your contact, discrimination etc) you'd need to quote, for example, if they advise that a solicitors letter to your employer could move towards a Settlement Agreement out of court.

It can be a game changer to be seen to have legal representation. It puts you in a stronger position. A half hour appointment with an employment solicitor is a worthwhile investment at this stage, if you feel it is reaching a stalemate.

An appeal works in a similar way to an investigation/disciplinary in my experience. It doesn't sit well with me it's the same manager though as they are certainly not going to admit any fault or entertain reversing the decision. I would speak to citizens advice/employment lawyer about a case for tribunal. a threat of tribunal may make her see sense but seek that advice first!