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Original poster

Dismissed for childcare issues

67 replies

JD999 · 14/07/2017 20:44

We have two young children and recently two childminders were unavailable at short notice (illness both times) so wife had to take time off work. At regular meeting manager wanted to dismiss because of latest incident when left work for part of day to collect child. Wife then felt pressurised to resign. Law says entitled to emergency childcare leave.

Advice appreciated. Thanks

OP posts:
OliviaStabler · 14/07/2017 23:33

You say your wife left work for childcare issues. What do you mean? Did she just walk out, tell her manager etc?

BeefyCakes · 14/07/2017 23:36

Sorry x post.

If the time off is starting to affect her work, then the employer can say something.

Original poster
JD999 · 14/07/2017 23:40

Has happened twice recently, last 6 weeks or so, but with completely different childminders and different reasons. It is not all down to wife I have left work on several occasions as well as taking
daughter to school so I'm late etc.

She is doing job, we are not talking about many days off, but having to leave work at
short notice couple of time. Very free days taken off for childcare and often taken as leave.i have taken hours here and there rather than whole days. I am a contractor and do not get any child leave etc.

She had made up hours by working late etc. where possible.

OP posts:
Original poster
JD999 · 14/07/2017 23:46

Wife told managers when left work didn't just walk out and was just for day or less as other occasion.

Thanks all for comments, lots for us to think about. Have to sign off now, will check back later.

OP posts:
TheWitchAndTrevor · 14/07/2017 23:50

We're you originally thinking about it being constructive dismissal? As YOU said about her feeling under pressure to resign?

TheWitchAndTrevor · 14/07/2017 23:50

*Were not We're

TheWitchAndTrevor · 14/07/2017 23:51

And don't know why the you is in capitals, sorry

katymac · 14/07/2017 23:53

I thought parental leave was in minimum of 2 week periods, booked in advance with employers agreement

not a few hrs here & there at no notice

Sadly you have to have alternative arrangements in place, for when a childcare situation is not available - most people have this problem when their children are sick rather than when the carer is

Original poster
JD999 · 14/07/2017 23:56

I was thinking constructive dismissal yes.

OP posts:
Original poster
JD999 · 14/07/2017 23:58

Parental leave booked advance yes, but emergency childcare is allowed.

Difficult alternative arrangements, no family nearby and cannot have two childminders with one on standby.

OP posts:
DioneTheDiabolist · 15/07/2017 00:04

If 2 childminders and your wife cannot take care of all your children's emergencies, it'seems time for you to step up to the plate too OP. Taking the time to look after your poorly children is part of being a parent.

PlaymobilPirate · 15/07/2017 00:24

Are you and your wife both posting as original OPs? Your posts are confusing and read very differently at times

ilovesooty · 15/07/2017 00:40

I think it's inevitable that this approach to her responsibilities is likely to result in questions being asked at work of your wife. Since she chose to resign rather than accept the need to address the situation I fail to see how she can have any grounds for complaint. As a contractor you seemingly had far greater flexibility.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 15/07/2017 06:31

I have never heard of a legal right to emergency leave for childcare. I think you are wrong about that.

I agree with a PP. Your wife's employer tried to address his employee's reliability, she got upset and made the situation worse.

She should have proactively addressed the situation and explained what she has done to improve it for the future.

Your wife's employer is just trying to run a business. Your employment restrictions, your childcare arrangements etc. are not their problem.

Tottyandmarchpane1 · 15/07/2017 06:39

She resigned and that's the end of it. As a manager I'd be very unlikely to accept a retraction at this stage: they called her in to speak informally regarding the fact she had been off twice with no notice in a 6 week period, she burst into tears and resigned. I would ask an employee what they wanted to do about a situation - that isn't aggressive, that is getting them to be pro active I.E She could have said she knows it is not great but you are finding a nursery so you don't run the risk of childminders being off sick (or whatever). She is also part time and thus (whether fair or not) last minute says off when you are not around all of the week are not great for the business. If I were you I would find another job and a nursery which never goes off sick. She has resigned now and you have no legal come back.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 15/07/2017 06:45

I presume OP is talking about emergency leave, as here: www.gov.uk/time-off-for-dependants/whats-an-emergency (it gives specific example of unexpected problems with childcare). We'd call this 'unpaid special leave' where I work (and I have had to use it - although once in two years, not twice in six weeks which is v unfortunate), but I'm not sure whether that's a general term or something more particular to my employer.

OP, you/your partner would do better to ring Acas (or trade union if your partner is a member), rather than asking a non-specialist audience on MN. Good luck.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 15/07/2017 07:29

As I read that, the right is to take time off to make arrangements in an emergency, not to be the childcare.

Everything else is at the employers' discretion.

thepatchworkcat · 15/07/2017 08:31

Yes I think it really depends on what the employer's policy on parental leave is and what their procedure for absence is. I think it's hard for people here to really comment without knowing that. For example I'm allowed a certain amount of parental leave and had to use it a couple of times when the childminder had an injury. I had a bad run for a few months of DC being ill, me being ill, childcare issues etc and that triggered an attendance meeting for me with HR. My attendance improved over the next year and I haven't had to have any more meetings. Have the workplace applied their own policy correctly?

Saiman · 15/07/2017 08:39

Tbh it sounds like she has veen spoken to her about her absence and been asked what plans she has in place to stpp this level of absence in future.

She has respondes by getting upset and resigning. They have no obligation to allow her to retract it.

While place do usually allow people to takr some time off to sort childcare, at some point thry have to say enough is enough.

It would be interesting to see exactly how much time she has had off in the last year/how long she has been there.

Employers can not just keep sucking up someone having to leave.

Loopytiles · 15/07/2017 08:52

She has been there less than two years so likely has v little chance of recourse.

You don't say whether you share the time off taken for sick DC equally: sounds like you don't. Being a contractor and not getting paid time off doesn't mean you shouldn't share the time off.

Suggest you seek back up childcare options for sick DC: difficult and expensive but not as expensive as being out of work.

Saiman · 15/07/2017 09:36

Its amazing how many men get jobs where they cant share time off work when their childcare doesnt work out. But their partners/wives should be able to with out question and their employer should be happy about it.

My dh owns his own business. I am employed, we share time off with the kids depending on what each has going on. He doesnt get paid if he isnt working. But his sensible enough to know it would be more expensive if i didnt have a job, that my job is important to me and that my employer is right to expect me to actually work.

Again i worked pt when the kids were young. But dh knew i was making a career sacrifice for our family and while we werent that much better off as a family, it would help me keep a foot in door and help my career (and earning) potential in the future.

GahBuggerit · 15/07/2017 09:47

The stat right to reasonable unpaid dependent leave (NOT childcare) is to handle the immediate emergency and then make provisions if it's going to be ongoing.

Employers are entitled to query and take action if it seems to be a regular occurrence. You don't say how many days off she has needed each time - this will make a difference to whether they are being unreasonable or not.

notapizzaeater · 15/07/2017 11:22

Regardless of anything else, they could have fired her for any reason in the first 2 years. Better to have resigned than be fired

Lurkedforever1 · 15/07/2017 15:47

I can see the employers pov here. It doesn't sound like there has been any attempt to find other solutions, and whilst I appreciate it happens it is still a lot of childcare issues in a small amount of time. And she is in essence telling her employer that your business can't possibly afford/ is too important for you to take time off for your own dc, but her employer should accept any difficulties. And it's the employers responsibility to bring it up if other co-workers have to take up the slack too, chances are your wife isn't the only one with dependents or commitments outside of work.

insancerre · 15/07/2017 16:39

As a manager I wouldn't accept your wife's retraction
She resigned
There is no statutory right for time off to care for your own children, except parental leave which has to be booked in advance
You can take emergency dependants leave which is normally half a day to arrange childcare
I wounded recommend you look at a nursery instead of a childminders. They don't tend to close at short notice
As a manager I would be expecting my staff to share childcare with their partner
It shouldn't always be down to the woman