New job - would this concern you?

[whereiscaroline]

I'm due to start a new job. It's close to home, great. I've purposely taken a role more junior than my previous roles as I want something where I can turn up, work hard, do my hours and leave just after 5 to get home to my family. But a couple of things have worried me about the working culture at this place.

Things which, when taken together, concern me:

• the interviewer told me how great it is that I live close to the office (like he does) as it means he gets to stay in the office until 7 and still be home for a bedtime story with his kids
• the offer letter stated the working hours as you'd expect... but with a caveat of the fact that people work late when necessary
• The most concerning to me... the T&Cs of employment state "you are expected to work a reasonable amount of unpaid overtime". I've seen contracts with more wishy washy statements about unpaid overtime such as "you may be required from time to time to work unpaid overtime to meet the needs of the business", but this seems to be saying that I will be expected to do over my hours.

This isn't what I want for an entry level job and my anxiety levels are through the roof.

AIBU to be worrying about this? WWYD?!

I should add - I don't mind pitching in and working over my paid hours from time to time, where I can sort childcare to be able to do so. But I do not want a job where working hours past 5 is the norm and where you're ostracised for leaving early

Do you have the opportunity to speak with people who work or have worked there?
If not why don't you just ask him what the expectation is. You could be subtle and say you're just wondeting what an average day looks like. Or more honest and say that you're happy to work as and when required but a need a clearer idea of what actually means in practice.

I wouldn't take his comment to mean anything. He was just saying about his experience in a more senior role.

The letter is a fairly standard statement. I guess "when required" means different things in different orgs though.

The t&c I agree seem to be saying you will work overtime but again what is "reasonable"? It might just mean when the business requires it.

Either way you need to understand what this means. Have you already handed in yoir notice?

Would you get time off in lieu if you worked unpaid hours? I assume your new contract is for "X" hours per week and anything over that, unpaid, you get to claim back in time off?

I'd want that clarified before I accepted the job tbh. Too many employers take the piss with this "presentee-ism" crap.

Nope no time off in lieu either!

I don't mind putting in extra hours but I don't want that to be expected of me.

No notice period as I'm currently self-employed but my CV is a bit patchy thanks to a redundancy, the current self employment, and a previous job which I hated and left after 6 months, so I wanted to avoid going somewhere and leaving again quickly.

I did emphasise during my interviews that I'm after something low key due to my son and other commitments, so I'm wondering whether to raise this issue with them again before I start but obviously don't want to come across as work shy.

Given that you're self employed currently, do you have anything to lose by asking them directly if you will be expected to work late? If they say you are, hold out for something better.

With what you have said I would avoid this job Iike the plague

I wouldn't sign up for a job which specifically said it expected unpaid OT. No way.

Alarm bells are ringing.... Don't ignore them!

Workplaces vary so much and lots of places expect staff to work over and above their day job for no extra renumeration and no time off in lieu. Ask the question but be prepared to hold out for something better. It doesn't sound like a good match tbh.

Could you cover it by working, say 30 minutes of a (presumed) hour lunch break - then you've done your (shocking!) unpaid overtime, but its not impinged on your home time. And if it gets mentioned just explain you're doing 2.5 hours extra a week, and you only took the job to be home on time!

What's the pay? Imo anything less than living wage and it's unreasonable to expect unpaid overtime. If it's 30k+ then outside the hours is reasonable. He was loud and clear that he does expect you to stay until 7 regularly.

you are expected to work a reasonable amount of unpaid overtime.

It depends what they mean by reasonable?

If you haven't yet accepted the job, but are reviewing the job offer documents then it's perfectly reasonable to check with them about overtime. If you don't query it now, you will find it a more uncomfortable conversation when you are in the role.

Don't let your stress levels go through the roof, when you haven't even start the job yet!

Thank you all for replies. I think I am going to write back to them and just ask them to clarify, making it clear that I won't be able to work unpaid overtime day to day due to other commitments.

But then I worry they will decide I'm workshy before I've even begun, which I'm not. I don't think anyone should be working for free though!

The job is more than £30k but I'm being paid for my qualifications and experience - regardless of this, the role is very junior and the most junior role in the team.

Why not just ask them to clarify what their expectations are re overtime and keep your cards close to your chest until they give the information. If you put it so negatively you are playing your hand before theyve played theirs

Take the job, unless you are confident you can get a different one easily.
Then ask if you can go in and meet your new line manager and colleagues informally, maybe over a coffee. Ask them what a typical day looks like, and try to suss out whether working late is normal or not. At this point, do NOT say you can't work late regularly. Until you start, you will likely have no idea why people stay late. Perhaps the real need to work late happens only once or twice a year and you would be able to plan for it. Or maybe it's just a question of time management and personal effectiveness ... you can't really find out until you start.

IME most jobs at that rate of pay will expect some flexibility in hours and won't pay overtime. It may not be right, but that's my experience.

Agree with daisychain

You have decided what you want. You just need to find a job that fits with that. I really wouldn't care if they thought I was workshy because I wanted to go home on time. Just because he stays until 7 doesn't necessarily mean he is good at his job or effective with his time!

I would start the role but just not do all this unpaid overtime. Work hard when you're there but leave on time and do not be made to feel guilty about it.