Can they make her work F/T?

[Clarinet60]

My friend returns from 6 months Mat leave next week. She wants to return p/t but they've told her she must work f/t. Does this depend on her contract, or is everyone entitled to p/t?

I am one of 4 children, there is a big age gap between the first two and the last two, my parents both worked when the first two (i'm the eldest) were young, and we had one parent at home fulltime when the second two were small. so if children of working parents do better, why is it that the younger two are doing much better, my bro is off to uni in september, we didn't even do a-levels?

As already mentioned your friend can apply to work PT but if her work can provide a good business case why it is not possible they would be allowed to decline it.

Re working FT, PT, STAHM etcI believe a lot of the latest economic research shows that what parents do (or don't do) has very little effect on the life chances of a child.

So in other words if you work FT, PT or not at all, if your child attends nursery or not , how many music groups you attend a week all have no proven impact.

It appears that it is what parents are which determines their children's life chances and this is usually determined pre birth. In other words your educational background, your socio-economic status etc.

So in other words we are all best doing what makes us happy - if that means working full time then work full time. If it means being a full time mum then enjoy it.

well said incy

I certainly go with the genes argument seeing how different my five children are from each other. How they are born is at least as important as how you deal with them.

I still don't get the inequalities which mean that 99 times out of 100 it's the women who "choose" to stay home and be housewives, clean and child mind and it's the men who are out their furthering careers. Why isn't it 50% chance either way? Is it because women marry men who earn more so it makes financial sense they give up work? Also whoever said if I work child care will take up x%... that child care bill is 50% the husband's so only take 50% of it off your likely salary to do a fair sum.

maybe some of us choose to stay at home even if the father would like to?

EllieK - does that mean the father isn't getting a choice then?
Sorry - I know this sounds like stirring, but I'm not just trying to fuel xenia, promise! I genuinely think it's an important point (tho admittedly a bit tangental to original thread).
I just wonder whether there are a lot of dads out there who would love to be P/T or SAHDs, but don't feel they can request this either because it's not part of our culture for working men, or because if BOTH parents would like to stay at home as the main carer, the mother tends to be the one who gets the choice.

I have to agree with Xenia that the 'choice' is not much of a choice at times due to the difference in earnings.

I used to enjoy my job, before DH and DD arrived (almost instantly) on the scene. Now I don't anymore. Why? because I do it p/t and not as good as I used to. I haven't got the time, I should be there everyday, sometimes after work. I should have my head free - while is full of kids stuff.

We could have done it the other way round If DH's salary wasn't three times more then mine.

It sucks at times because I cannot see me as neither a SAHM, nor as just a desk filler waiting for my paycheck. at the same time the option of both of us doing f/t is not really an option. My kids are MY kids and I want them to spend the majority of their time with us not with carers.

On the other hand I knew all that when I met DH and decided to have a child with him and marry him. If it did not suit me I should have dropped him and wait for someone with the same or smaller salary then me so that we'd be equal.

sometimes I do get stressed about this and no doubt money are a strong power to have. If we are buying our house at the moment is because of the flat I bought before meeting DH. But if you decide to marry someone you decide to trust them and cannot live throught your life preparing for the divorce IMO.

i think so ebenezer, i really believe that there are dads out there who would rather stay at home with the kids but society/their partners think it should be the mothers job! not sure where i stand on this tbh, i know my exP wanted to go part time but haven't had to face the issue as i'm now on my own

my dh would rather be at home, but now earns so much more, he always got on quicker than me at work due at first to simple sexism. More recently the gap has widened even faster, because I've been having the kids, maternity leave, having to leave on the dot to collect kids, nanny-employing (a disaster) then going part time, making me a criminal in the eyes of my boss. Plus like Pippi, my head is full of kid stuff.

PL, why does he earn more than you? This is often the key issue. My ex husband I agreed before we married if one of us had to give up work it wuold be him because I would earn over a career much more than his teaching salary (not that he ever needed to - we had a nanny).

So was it just chance you ended up maryring someone who earns 3 x more? It's not at all rare. Time after time on here and elsewhere women give up work because their husband is in a very well paid job and their paltry earnings are as nothing, the usual old fashioned "pin money" that might pay for holidays etc So why is that? Do women choose to marry higher earners. It should be parity - as girls up to 25 earn 60p more an hour than boys at the moment for the first time ever; does that mean at 30 they still will and all these men will be told you earn less get thee hence into the kitchen whiulst I fly around teh world on supposed business trips which happen to include trips to hotel spas and skiing and 5 nights away from the children all in pursuit of my interesting career?

maybe that will happen, Xenia, but more likely those people will just not have kids.

In my own case, as my friend put it, I am hanging on by my teeth to my job through sheer bloodymindedness-most of the people I work with would quit tomorrow and be SAHMs, and think I am stupid to keep working, (just to make me feel REALLY happy at work).

And it's true, I do keep in mind the possibility of divorce-will that be a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Xenia, I can tell you million and one reasons why I married him. Why for the first time in my life I thought it'ds be worth loosing my independence by having children. shall I bore you all with his wit, his generosity, understanding etc??? think not. at the same time I am not going to deny that his salary might have played a part in it, but as much (I'd like to think very little actually) as all the other things. I am not very materialistic me TBH but it did tell me that he was independent and resorceful. I did go out in the past with those who erned less then me and it did not bother me, what it bothered me after a while was the lazyness.

why I was making less money? because I rebelled as a teenager and left uni and home to come here and do it all by myself - which put me a few steps behind, because I wasted a few years having fun, because I had to learnt a different language, because I was not as motivated as him, because I was fine the way I was doing.

TBH my lifestyle has not changed one bit since. but I am glad and grateful I have got the choice to be able to stay with my kids if I want to due to his salary and to save for them and to move to a better area (joint forces here) for schools!! like he is glad and grateful of all I bring to this (and it is a lot).

Xenia I see your point as I have lived through it when my parents divorced (a 10 years court case) where my dad won in all courts because he had the money to pay for the best loyers. but what to do? I want to spend time with my kids, not all day every day but most of it. find the way and I'll follow you.

I just re-read the OP. How did we get here?

this is crazy!! Basta please!

I am going to wake DD (who BTW has got chicken pox and I had to take the day off for) so I won't be able to be continue with this.

I fell in love with the fella, not his wagepacket, but yes he always earned significantly more than what I earned.

My part-time job is exactly that - part-time, the hours weren't cut to suit my needs, the hours were decided before I took on the position.

I mentioned the childcare costs of going back full-time (rather than part-time) and the childcare costs would be high whoever footed the bill, on the basis of going from pt to ft, in monetary terms, and in sheer-knackeredness terms.

DH would quite like to work pt, but in our situation it's just not practical.

I do agree though, that lots of parents (both mothers and fathers) just don't have the choice.

PLK, why you not your other half home with the chickenpoxz child? That again is not chance. It's women being put second in career stakes.
And yet another couple on there whose husbands happen to earn quite a bit more.

It's quite clear why men do better at work etc over a 40 year career because women choose to give up work, are able to make the choice because they tend to marry "up" however unintentional and non materialistic they are. I didn't so I carried on working. So I suppose the way to ensure women do better is make sure our daughters marry men who earn or will earn less so when push comes to shove it will be daddy at home scrubbing floors whilst our daughters run the country and the economy (which in my view is much more fun) but I accept some fathers and even mothers prefer to stay at home.

of course it is no chance it is me who stays at home. i work in the public sector... enough said I think.

I hope so too for my daughters and sons that society will give them both more choices. That both boys and girl will get to the same positions for the same money before they meet and decide to have a family. i wish we were a bit more like sweden were dads were granted more time off and parental rights.
I wish all this and more, however nothing will change the fact that once one has kids often one wants/has to spend time with them which means less time in the workplace which means less availability, less money, less promotions.

It doesn't matter how much I love my independency and my freedom... I will not be happy if I had all that but no time with my kids at all.

maybe I will, who knows, sometimes I think that the less you are with them the less you wwant to be with them as you don't know them...

1st April - fathers get rights to 6 months paternity leave so nothing to stop mother taking first six months (if the family can afford for her to be off that long) and father second. it's all getting easier. And I think educating children about jobs, pay, family issues, work life balance etc helps too. My 3 at university are having to pick careers and they I hope are weighing all thise stuff on an informed basis - X job means you can do Y, Z job means the hours are X and the pay is B etc. C job means you can afford private school fees and a nanny. D job you'll be lucky to buy a one bed flat but you might love it etc etc

Just crashing the thread, sorry.....Is that right about the paternity leave Xenia?

DH would love that

Ah, I just checked and it looks like they are postponing it to 2008, not bringing it in on 1st April with other maternity leave changes. Sorry to confuse people.

www.dti.gov.uk/files/file35584.pdf

There's a very interesting index in there on paternity rights in other countries which is worth looking at.

It will when in force only be the £112 a week women get and you will get it only if your wife is back at work.

Plenty of food for thought here. I definitely like the idea of 6 month paternity leave once the mother is back at work. That's the first real step towards equality - society accepting that every child has two parents who are both capable of being the primary carer, AND of earning a living. I bet there are many parents who want the chance to do both, so this is excellent news. I just hope it will work, and we'll see a lot more daddies being the SAHP for 6 months. It'll be interesting in years to come, whether we see the long term effect in more well adjusted children, as both parents will have had the chance to play a more active role in child rearing. I also think another knock-on of this will be that more mums may find it easier to return to work knowing that for the first 6 months they are back, the child's father will be the carer. I've noticed since the newer ruling about extended maternity leave for mums, that friends of mine who take the full year off, have found it quite hard to go back to work. My dcs were born when 6 months was the maximum time off, and in fact after dc1 I returned when she was 3 months. ALthough it was hard work, I think in some ways it was easier than starting to leave a baby when they're almost one, and much more aware. I guess with the new paternity rights, it will still mean that the mum can take off a whole year, and then the father can take his 6 months? So actually, a child could have its parents as the primary carers for the first 18 months of its life. It does sound as though we're catching up with other countries at last!

I went off to read the schedule with enthusiasm. All those countries I thought who had it right with non transferrable paternity leave in progressive places like Sweden, Iceland etc and men don't really take it, not 50% anyway.
Canada 9.5% of fathers take it, Denmakr men take 25 days leave and mothers 351, Finalnd men 29 days, 2.3% take it (it's 66% of earnings) and if men take 2 weeks they get an extra 12 days.
Iceland 80% of earnings up to 6000 euros, 16% of fathers took it. 20% took less than 3 months.
Norway 4% before parental leave and now it is there 89% take some leave but only 6 weeks. Oly 15% take more
Solvenia (pretty sexist country, 0.6% in 1999 and 2.2% in 2003.
Sweden 80% of earnings up to 32,000 euros a year, 90% of fathers take some mostly when children 13 - 15 months old. 19.5% of parentl leave is taken by fathers.
The comments say things like fathers take more parental leave if they have more education. Public sector take more. And quite a few cou8ntries comment is - fathers take it if mother lets them, mother's willingness to share. Mothers who work and have good jobs more likely to share with men etc .

It's still nto very good take up.

"Fathers take the paternity leave if mothers let them"!!! That's truly shocking. I adore being with my children, and the thought that I might want to deny their other parent that joy is dreadful. Let's hope this country takes heed and makes this policy work here. Mothers - let fathers care for their children too!

Xenia, didn't think i'd heard of it yet. But glad they're going to do that. Hmmm maybe we will have baby number 3? Will wait to see what good old government do.