How to negotiate an appropriate pay rise for this promotion please?

[Celeriacacaca]

I started in my job just over a year ago in a fairly lowly role to fit in with family life. Within four months the job was regraded (upwards) as I was doing over and above but still at a fairly low key level relative to other employees. Since then I have become even more involved in many areas which has expanded my role to more of a project manager - I have taken on tasks that much more senior (and highly paid) people were doing previously which has freed them up to do more ambitious things and have overhauled marketing which is already reaping the company rewards (my background is in media). My boss has acknowledged that my contribution is far greater than when originally employed/regraded and says he knows he is getting me on the cheap so has asked to have a conversation about shaping my future within the organisation, along with a suitable salary. I would like to stay there for many reasons.

I am at a stage in life and have enough experience to know that I am very good at what I do, am 'valuable' to the company and feel that I deserve to be paid accordingly, however, I don't know how to approach the £ side of it given that a realistic figure would be probably double what I am getting now.

I think if I was a man I would probably just go in and just say it how it is and get what I wanted so I want to equip myself to be able to do that without underselling myself. I can list countless examples of the value I've added since being there. Any good negotiators around to advise please?

Congratulations on making such good progress with your job! I'm sure people with more useful advice will be along in due course, but in the meantime my observations are as follows.

You sound less than confident about asking for double the amount you're currently paid! If you can research what similar roles are being advertised at you'd a) boost your condfidence to ask for a realistic salary and b) be able to show the evidence to your boss if he balks at more than a token increase.

Bear in mind that whatever salary is agreed now could form the basis for what you're paid in years to come, so make sure you're not expressing your gratitude for the convenience of the role by agreeing to work at a bargain rate.

Finally, a previous boss of mine regarded himself as a skilled negotiator. His tactic was to ask what was needed, reject the request and offer a significantly lower amount. He'd then be persuaded to raise this halfway to the original request and I was supposed to be grateful for this generosity . I cottoned on to this fairly early on and played him at his own game. Say I needed to increase a budget by £10k; I'd say I needed £15k; he'd offer £5k and then allow me to make my case for more; he'd reluctantly offer £10k. Job done. Your boss may be more straightforward than mine, but be aware that allowing the other person a bit of leeway (and the opportunity to think that they've negotiated effectively) is worth considering.

Best of luck - let us know how you get on?

Thank you Optimist - that's good advice and, yes, it's a confidence thing to a certain extent. I know I'm v good at what I do but (and this has been with previous jobs too where I've progressed quickly) that I'm not "worth" a high salary, even though the level of work and what I'm contributing would more than justify it.

Excellent point about the basis of future earnings too. Your negotiation story made me smile. Thank you again.

You need to do a fair comparison between your job and current rates in the open market.

Use recruitment websites like Indeed.com to gather evidence of salary levels in your area for your new role. If you are currently on £20,000 and you can provide ample evidence your role could attract £28,000, you will need to be realistic in your expectation and see if they would increase to £25,000. If they peg you down at £23,000 you then have to decide whether to take the lower amount. These are just scenarios.

In short, gather evidence, think in advance what you can realistically ask and be prepared for them to haggle.

Or maybe they'll do the decent thing and give you what you've asked for if they value your contribution. Good luck!

Hi op, I had something similar last year and went to see a sort of life coach (she was actually my CBT therapist for PND but offered life coaching too). I needed to negotiate a payrise of about £20k at the time and was all over the place about it.

She told me that she saw loads of people in a life coach capacity and that without fail, men would just walk in and EXPECT that £20k but women tend towards the 'I know you're doing me a favour ' approach. She gave me the confidence to know I was worth it (it was the going market rate afterall, I wasn't asking for anything unreasonable) but the thing that made the difference for me was deciding, in a non emotional way, that if they didn't see fit to pay the role at the going rate, then I'd be happy to go off to a company that would.

In terms of the salary you should ask for. Consider the going rate for your skills and role, also consider how much it would cost them to replace you. Do they use agencies? What would the agency fee be? How long would it take to get someone new in and train them? Would they HAVE to replace you or would they likely just wedge your responsibility into other people's roles? Is there anything you do that they couldn't wedge into other people's roles? Consider the impact on THEM if you leave. This will give you a rounded picture of how willing they will be to negotiate.

Something else I did (which therapist said not to!) was suggest myself they do it in stages. I acknowledged that it was a difficult time for all businesses financially and suggested they give me half of the payrise on a certain date, and that I'd wait 6 months for the other half. I got that agreement in writing so I could happily go back after 6 months and remind them. In truth, they didn't then have to honour it, if wasn't legally binding, but that's a risk you take.

One other thing I did, and wouldn't recommend (!), is i totally lost my shit with HR on the lead up to the negotiation. They weren't involved in the payrise, I went to them in a pastoral capacity, seeking advice because my role was needing underpaid. They played the HR role, straddling the conversation diplomatically, and I went a bit over board with my reaction. Luckily, it didn't go against me, but it was a foolish move.

I think it sounds like you're in a strong position if your boss themselves is suggesting you talk about pay. Take that as a vote of confidence, get your facts straight about the market, consider wider factors about how inconvenient it would be for them to lose you, have a bottom line in mind, don't be afraid to nicely mention you understand if they can't give you X, as you hope they'll understand that you wouldn't want to stay in a role which is underpaid, and have a back up suggestion in mind as to how they might stagger the increase if you can sense they're on the ropes but not quite going to give you what you want . All very professional and with a smile. It's a negotiation- you are entitled to play your part in it!

Good luck!

What sort of salary bracket are we looking at here? I think that makes a big difference as to how you would negotiate it.

Are there other comparable jobs out there? Where have you got your figures from?

As well as salary is there anything else you'd want to add to the mix? For example formal project management qualifications?

"If you are currently on £20,000 and you can provide ample evidence your role could attract £28,000, you will need to be realistic in your expectation and see if they would increase to £25,000. "

No no no. If you can provide ample evidence that your role ought to command a salary of £28k, you don't ask for £3k less than that. 'Being realistic' means not assuming you'll get the £28k. It doesn't mean asking for less in the first place. By asking for £28k you might get £25k. If you only ask for £25k you'll only get £23k.

As long as you have plenty of supporting evidence, why ask for less than the evidence you have supports? You might get less, but at least value yourself correctly and ask for the right amount.

Thank you all, really interesting reading. GreenRut, thanks for allowing me to benefit from your life coaching!

What I'm talking about negotiating is a more than doubling of salary from around £21 to nearer to £45k. I've looked at trade recruitment sites as well as Indeed and, although the job I've 'created' is quite unique, comparable salaries start at £40 up to £60. They would find it hard to replace me, I know, for a number of reasons and I have a very good personal and working relationship with my boss. I know he found it very hard to work with at least two of my predecessors.

I have a teenage daughter and this whole area is something I really want her to learn about as I feel it's so important in the workplace and often women aren't equipped or role-modelled to approach and deal with it in the same way as a man might.

Thank you again. Continuing my research and evidence gathering...

I thought I should update you to let you know what happened...I got the pay rise I asked for (more than double) and, although it was a stretch for my boss to get his head around, I presented all the evidence of similar roles getting the same rate, and he didn't quibble! I am so happy and just wanted to say thank you to you all as your encouragement and advice really did help. By doing the research and anticipating the way the conversation would go, I felt so much more comfortable and confident. In fact, we ended up having a very frank discussion about all sorts of work related things which will benefit me in the future too.

It has been particularly interesting, particularly being set against the background of the BBC gender inequality pay row - and I know that helped to focus his mind that a worker should be paid a fair rate, irregardless of anything else.

Thank you again and to all who helped.

Woo hoo! Well done, and thanks for reporting back.

Well done OP! Proves research pays off

Wow, that's so inspiring! Thanks for updating!

Fabulous update, well done Celeriac! and