Employee issues

[phyrebird]

Hi,

Just looking to get some advice. I'm anxious and have stomach pains because of what's going on at work.

I've been working at my company 3 years and recently been promoted. I'm enjoying my new job but the person who was brought in to do my previous job (who I'm line managing) has been giving me cause for concern. He initially applied for the job I'm now doing as we had to advertise externally too but was asked to interview for my old job instead. I was involved in interviewing and had some reservations as he seemed a bit too confident but we chose him anyway. I should have listened to my gut.

Things were going well I thought, for the first few weeks. But since then there's been lots of little things that are bothering me. It's not as if he's not doing the work, he is although he seems to need some prompting and reminding to do certain things. He seemed to be getting through the work fairly quickly but when I checked there were some obvious mistakes, which I told him to correct. No problem, everyone makes mistakes but some of these were really obvious things that he should have noticed. Missing out steps from what he should be doing, costing things to the wrong place etc. I have also offered him some additional support for a certain issue he has but I'm not sure if he's going to take me up on it even though it could make the company look unprofessional. I'm trying to be supportive and just want the work to be done properly and for there to be a harmonious atmosphere but he's really trying my patience. I'm trying not to take it personally and think maybe he's just got a bad attitude and thinks he can do whatever he likes. It's really winding me up and I'm worried it'll reflect badly on me.

The main issue is that he spends a lot of time texting/IMing throughout the day when he's meant to be working. The first time I noticed this (chatting on FB messenger) I asked him not to do it and he stopped. But I noticed he was doing it still, minimising the screen when I walked past him. I discussed this with him in a meeting and he denied it at first, until I said I'd seen him typing into the chat window. Now he is mostly texting instead, he spends a lot of time staring down at his phone and messaging in between doing the work. I don't think he realises I can see him doing this. I've spoken to him a few times when I've noticed this happening and he says he'll stop it but I might as well talk to the wall.

I'm feeling frustrated that he's still doing this when I've asked him not to several times, and even pointed out that he's still in his probationary period and should be trying to make a good impression. He agreed that it doesn't look good yet still he persists!!

He also started calling me a particular term of endearment a few weeks in, which made me feel creeped out/patronised and I asked him not to. But every now and then he'll call me it again. Each time I remind him not to call me that. The guy is several years younger than me at least but it's not as if he's just new to working, and I find it bizarre that he calls me this (it's not a cultural thing). It could be construed as sexist too. When I mentioned it again (for the umpteenth time) he told me he'd picked it up from his grandmother!!! Which is just weird. Do I remind him of his grandma?!

I just don't understand why he does this. Surely, if someone says "Hey Jim, I don't like being called honey, call me Julie instead please" you damn well call them Julie? How could you forget that? It's not difficult.

There has also been some issues with him saying things that are vaguely racist/sexually harassing. He seems pretty clueless about what is inappropriate. I've had discussions with him and told him why he shouldn't be saying this or that and he apologised.

On top of this, I googled him out of curiousity and something very concerning appeared. The name/age/location matched up with what I found but I'm not sure if it's him or not as there's several entries in the phone book/voting register so I don't know if it's him moving around or several different people. Not sure if I can find out if it's him for sure but it's made me even more nervous about the whole situation.

I have spoken to both my own manager and someone in HR about the various incidents (haven't said anything about what I found online) so they are aware of what's happening and have given me advice about how to deal with things. I'm keeping a diary of these incidents. It's making me feel demoralised and unable to concentrate because there he is fiddling with his phone again. I don't want to micromanage him but ffs. The thing is the office is quite laid back and the odd bit of texting isn't frowned upon, but he is taking advantage. I think back to when I was first employed there and I was scared to even check the internet during my lunch break because I was worried about failing my probational but this guy has such a brass neck he was IMing openly in front of dozens of people when he should have been working.

His probationary period is coming up and although part of me just wants to let him go asap I think I'll at least have to extend it to show fairness and also to give myself more time as I've been very busy learning my new role too. Final decision is down to me. I'm torn because on one hand it's good to have someone doing the work that would otherwise be building up but on the other hand it shouldn't be this difficult should it? I shouldn't have to tell someone multiple times to focus on the job. I shouldn't be feeling ill coming into a job that i otherwise enjoy. I'm also worried about potential repercussions if I end his employment. This situation is playing on my mind and I wish I could turn back the clock and have chosen someone else for the job.

Thanks for any advice.

PB

I'd bring him in Monday. Go through all those thing and tell him you were letting him go.

No way would I let it go on any further. Get a temp until you replace him.

Doesn't sounds like there is much good about him. If your hr don't have an issue with just getting rid without a performance improvement plan etc then I would seize the chance to get shot tbh.

You need the improvement plan before the 6th month deadline really. He can be released at 6 months but you should write up notes to back up what you have said, the support you have offered and what progress has been made, if any. You should also note remarks, actions and names that are not acceptable.

If you keep him after 6 months he has a lot more employment rights. You would be mad to keep him. He has been given an opportunity to improve. You should really do performance management after 1 month to check on a successful induction and then at about 4 months. Then a final meeting at 6 months to confirm he has passed the probationary period or not. Your firm seems rather lax on employee performance management. Have you had any training?

What bubbles said is complete bollocks. You have two years in which to dismiss. Probation passing gives them no more rights than before probation. You do not need any improvement plan. You can dismiss now with no repercussions. The sooner you do the better.

I'm guessing that this is his best behaviour, since he's on probation. It doesn't bode well. I'd speak to HR and get rid asap.

Get rid

This wouldn't even be a thing to think about if you weren't a woman. You don't need to overthink this, or write reams of justifications, or give him the benefit of the doubt, or be nice and accommodating in any way.

Your his boss. He's harassing you, being sexist, being incompetent, putting you down and making you not want to go to work. He's making you feel sick. Don't people please.

This is not a thing to think about

^exactly* what Laurie says.

Fire him and move on.

Trust your gut instinct and get him out. Don't extend his probation and definitely don't pass him! You're already documenting everything, you've spoken to HR and your manager so why are you dragging this out? There are too many problems with this guy and he isn't responding to feedback. It will only get worse (and harder to get him out) the longer you leave it.

I took over as Head of a Dept in my last job and I inherited a new-ish joiner a lot like your guy. He talked a good game but he wasn't backing it up with actual quality work. I've been round the block quite a few times (getting old ha ha!) and every instinct was screaming he was bad news. My UK head and the rest of our management team thought I was being too tough on him (I do have a reputation for being quite tough - but fair - as I come from a much more "brutal" industry background than most of my colleagues and don't suffer fools). They didn't have as much contact as I did with him so didn't see/hear what I did. This guy was a great manipulator, to the extent that he was twisting one of the management team round his little finger and this manager and I had a seriously big falling out about him (we were previously very close).

Anyway, my nightmare newbie continued to be a pain in the neck (but never quite enough to draw serious attention....a lot like your guy) and I wanted to extend his probation. I wanted to fire him really but I didn't have enough evidence for HR to support that. Our offshore HR team f*cked up the end of probation process and passed him rather than extended him. He continued to dick around but kept being given another chance as there was always some excuse. He seemed to have the luck of the devil but I clung on to the belief that luck will always run out. His behaviour got worse and started to be noticed by people (including clients) and he couldn't lie to cover up any longer and HR agreed we could put him on a PIP. On the day of his PIP meeting, he went off sick. And stayed sick for several months (with a bonkers sickness reason), managing to completely breach sickness policy (he didn't inform me or his manager or HR, he didn't keep in regular/any contact, we had to chase for fit notes constantly, it was unbelievable!). By this point, even HR and my UK head had had enough. UK head wanted to fire him as soon as he came back but HR were too worried he would bring a discrimination case. So the saga went on. It took 2 years to get the guy out and the time I lost, my team lost, HR lost, clients lost all in trying to get him out was bloody ridiculous! Especially when I'd known so soon that he was a bad hire.

Please don't end up in the same mess that we did. Trust your instincts. You need to get this guy out while it's legally easy to do so.

Agree with everyone else, GET RID while it's still easy enough to do it.

He must have a death wish to do this whilst still on probation. I'd say put him out of his misery. It is a no brainer.

YES to what Laurie said! Don't let this man intimidate you or make you feel anxious, Be professional and deal with it. Get rid of him. He clearly has no respect for your authority.

"If you keep him after 6 months he has a lot more employment rights."

No, he absolutely does not. His employment rights the day after passing probation are exactly the same as they were before, the only exception being there might be a longer notice period involved if that is in his contract.

Having said that, I can't see why you should extend his probation or keep him any longer. Sounds like you've given him loads of chances.

What repercussions is it you're worried about?

Sack the cocky little git.

I'm with flowery, even if you were to extend or pass his probation, you can still dismiss him after that, because statutory employment rights don't kick in until he has been there for 2 years. You have ample reason, it's not as if he hasn't been warned.

Being fair to someone is one thing, but after numerous reminders not to use his mobile and tangible evidence of incompetence with no desire to improve, spells a problem that needs to be resolved and nipped in the bud.

He may well be taking advantage of you being too nice to him.

I would get rid on the basis that he hasn't passed his probation. No discussion. He isn't doing what is being asked of him and therefore he is of no use to you as you cannot rely on him.

Agree with pp.

Would also be telling him to put his phone away and asking IT to give me a printout of sites he has visited every day.

Get rid now.

Sorry for the delay in replying, I'm having computer problems at home.

Many thanks for all your advice. I guess I'm a bit hesitant to let him go straight away because my boss, who is quite high up in the company, seems to think he's helpful blah blah. And HR said it doesn't look great if someone is let go right away. The advice I was given by HR was to talk to him when issues come up and ask why he said this or that and then explain why it's unacceptable. I asked HR and the final decision does come down to me, as his line manager. We have a 3 month probationary period but it can be extended. I'm not sure if we'd need to do a performance improvement plan if we extend the probation, I'll find out. But yes, I'd love to get rid of him ASAP, what a relief that would be.

AlternativeTentacle, that's a good idea about getting in a temp. That would tide us over until we can interview for the position. I just feel so stuck just now. And the thing is he is doing the work, it's not like he's doing nothing but he's needing some prompting and reminding about stuff as well as the constant texting nonsense.

I did speak to another manager about things and he said it's so much easier to get rid of someone during the probationary period if there's issues and he once had to deal with a long drawn out situation to end someone's employment which was a real headache. He seemed a bit more sympathetic to my situation.

Another thing I was worried about is what if he does improve but then reverts to his old ways if we keep him on? Ugh. tbh I just don't like the guy, I think he's full of shit, has an attitude problem and has probably been like this his whole life. Most of his CV had positions lasting just a year so who knows if there's been issues elsewhere too. I can't quite decide if he's just totally clueless or quite manipulative. I think about the working relationship I had with my former manager and we got on great, she had no problems with me (obviously lol) and I'd been hoping to have the same type of working relationship with my new report. It sounds childish but everything he does annoys me now, sitting chewing gum at this desk and so on. Stuff that wouldn't bother me if it were someone else. Sigh.

Bubbles, good idea on the write up. I had been keeping a diary of the various incidents but I'll write about the extra support given to him and so on. I have also emailed a professional that a friend recommended who specialises in the learning disability that he has, as there might be legal implications there, I worry he will start something. Also I've not had any training on how to manage someone, although I've asked for it.

flowery The repercussions, well, without going into detail, the newspaper article I saw online was very worrying. If it is about him that is. I'm not sure if there's a way of checking on the voting register if it's just one person who's been moving around the area or more than one person?

hundredmilesanhour What a nightmare for you! Yes that's exactly what this guy is like. Talks a good game. He's always bantering with our colleagues and says things that make him sound good. He put something in an email once that made him sound like he was working when not at work and I thought yeah right, he doesn't even have access to his emails when he's not at work! Just trying to sound good. I'm not sure if I need to have lots of evidence to support me getting rid of him? I'll ask my boss.

Snowfairy good call on speaking to IT. He was using our Skype for a bit to chat to people, would be interesting to see what he's been saying! The thing is, although we have an internet/social media policy not once does it say "please focus on your work and don't use the internet when you should be working". It just says don't go on these certain types of sites and IT can track everything. I guess 99% of people who work for us are good and just get on with things no problems. And it's fine to go on FB etc during your lunch break and we need the internet for work purposes anyway. Or to send the odd text or phone someone if you need to. He's just taking the piss.

I do sometimes wonder if he's pissed off because I got the job he'd initially applied for, and resents being managed by me. I'm quite awkward and introverted and yes, too nice. I could quite easily have let everything slide but I decided to say something about it. I don't think he was expecting that but it's not made him stop any of it.

Another vote to dismiss him.

If employees aren't doing everything they can to impress in the first few weeks/months they rarely get better.

I have also emailed a professional that a friend recommended who specialises in the learning disability that he has,

Personally I would not get into this.

I would call up [don't email] a couple of references and ask them off the record what their experiences of him were, as you are experiencing [list the things, including racist and sexism overtones], and find out why he was only there for such a short time.

What I would say to the other managers if they like him, they can hire him can't they?

Trouble is, by the time you have the training needed to sack this man, he will have been through his two years and be too far in for you to sack.

I'd get rid on the racism. Let alone the other shit. Get IT to give you a report on what he is accessing when if it helps make the decision. Do some more research on this thing you have found online if it will add more evidence but it is your decision and the question needs to be 'how do I sack him' not 'shall I sack him'.

I'd get rid of him.

I worked with someone very similar to him and they were kept on past their probation despite objections by myself and several other colleagues, in the end he walked out but not before he caused a lot of problems and ill feeling. One example was that he was doing an Open University course in his spare time, it wasn't work related at all but he thought that it was acceptable to do coursework etc whilst he was meant to be working.

You have to get rid of him now.
Even if things improve, it will only be temporary.

I am in the exact same situation, and I didn't act fast enough. Been in my management role for 1 year now. The colleague started just as I was being promoted.

1. Argues with everything I say: even if I say he is right, he will start arguing that he is wrong, just so that he can continue arguing
2. Work is such poor quality that I can't trust him to do even the simplest of tasks. So I don't even see the point of him being here. Some big mistakes have come back to us and look bad on the whole team.
3. Makes sexist comments and seems to have an issue with women in general. I am pregnant and he made humiliating jokes about me in front of other colleagues: about me being so fat it looked as if I was having twins - this was before my 12th week and nobody knew I was pregnant and actually enraged me to the point i had to go home unwell before I scratched his face off. I dont think we can rebuild a healthy relationship after this and I have told my boss this.
4. Spends time emailing his mum, disappearing for hours to play table football (it's meant for break times), taking extended lunch breaks, arriving late and leaving early.

My boss knew all about all of these issues and we were going to take action but somehow his contract accidentally got renewed while my boss was on holiday (we imagine he went to the HR manager and told some porkies). Because of the hierarchy issues (HR approved so getting rid would be an insult to further up the chain) we are now stuck with him for one more year!!!

My boss has told me its not worth getting stressed over and that I should just not waste my breath and pretend he isnt there for the next 12 months. Meanwhile, he is stirring things up with other people in the team, and the more he feels ignored the more he acts up. But if I give him an inch, he takes a mile. There is no winning in this situation, so ignoring his existence seems the best bet for now.

So get rid now. If you are in charge and get to decide how you want to spend the next year, why would you choose this type of challenge? focus learning managerial skills that will help people who are motivated and deserve a chance.

Agree withe consensus here! One additional thing to help support you though, where you say the IT policy doesn't say "don't look at other websites when you're supposed to be working", hopefully the bit you need here will be in the employment contact something along the lines of "devote all of their working time and attention to the role of..." Basically, if you are not actually working (whether or not your bum is on the seat) and you're taking the salary as if you were working, um, no. Door's that way.

Basically, if you are not actually working (whether or not your bum is on the seat) and you're taking the salary as if you were working, um, no. Door's that way.

Yes, this could be the case IF you needed a reason.

He has been there less than 2 years. No reason is needed.

And HR said it doesn't look great if someone is let go right away. - um, that's exactly what probation is for. You tried, but he's lazy, incompetent, sexist and spends his time dicking around when he's been told numerous times it's inappropriate. And during the probation period where surely everybody would be on their best behaviour and working their arses off? Can you imagine what he will be like in a couple of years?