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Original poster

bonus issues again - city lawyer advice needed

17 replies

hecciesmum · 15/03/2007 07:46

ok - so i know that some element of pro rating is allowed, but i got a 65% cut in my bonus from my manager who actually stated "because you were on maternity leave for halfd the year we have cut your bonus in half".

The next day they came back to me and changed their story that actually i wasn't cut in half because the pool was down 35a%, I would have beencut by 35% and as such I was actually paid more than half a year.

i have since been told by senior management that the pot was flat.

They also told me that it was "group policy" to pro rata. Last time I was on mat leave my vbonus went up, and also they will not tellme what they did to another one of my colleagues who was also away 6 months last year (but I believe she went up, not down)

SHould I pursue this? really don't want to end up as another city sex discrim case splashed across the papers?

OP posts:

TheBlonde · 15/03/2007 07:56

I think you should pursue it just on the basis of what happened to your bonus last time

You can use the grievance procedure and they may cave with just that

TheBlonde · 15/03/2007 07:57

Sorry forgot to add I am not a lawyer

squiffy · 15/03/2007 08:52

If your bonus is completely discriminatory as is standard in the city (ie no formulae or anything written in the contract) then you have a very strong case for sex discrim and should fight this tooth and nail. They are fobbing you off and their legal advice would be to NEVER pro-rata on maternity leave (I have been to briefings by my banks' lawyers - linklaters). Even if your contract states that it is company policy to pro-rate.

That said it is pretty much standard in the city for people to be subject to this even though probably illegal. I was terrified they'd do it to me but they didn't in the end. have a look here my old thread and here
Because I was so convinced it would happen to me I trawled through quite a few websites to check the legal position. I reckon if you put in a grievance they would cave, and if not speak to Alison Downie at Bindmans 7833 4433

here's some of the sites I found that were useful when I was trawling through all this.
here and here

The latter link by the way has the fab line: The tribunal observed: "It is apparent that each of the comparators is male and received a bonus, whereas the applicant did not. "Further they, of course, had not been on maternity leave. We could therefore come to the conclusion that the applicant had been treated less favourably by reason of her sex."

Please let me know outcome and good luck.

Original poster

hecciesmum · 15/03/2007 09:47

thanks squiffy

The situation is also somewhat complicated by the fact that i am not on a UK contract, but a european one, even though my job is predominantly in the UK. In addition they are now trying to force me to relocate to the UK which I do not want to do, arguing that "we can pay you more if you work in the UK". ALl smacks of strong arm tactics.

The point is that i had one of the top performance scores last year, went to a conference while on leave, took clients for lunch etc and even pulled in big tickets in deals we were running because we had lost them to other syndicate members and i was called up while sitting in the garden and asked to claw it back - which I did.

I spoke to the head of the business yesterday and told him that I am very unsure as to why they changed their story and what is going on and that i want this resolved. he said he would come back to me today, so I will let you know what he says.

AM also due to talk to a lawyer later on. Have had enough and just feel totally spat on

OP posts:

meowmix · 15/03/2007 09:57

if you neeed a good lawyer I strongly recommend Kennedys, on aldgate I think. Very good.

clerkKent · 15/03/2007 13:08

You have solid evidence of sex discrimination. Talk to a lawyer, work out what you want (e.g. 100% of last year's bonus or whatever), then take them on. I work in HR in the City - we would capitulate given what your manager said.

Original poster

hecciesmum · 15/03/2007 15:44

what i don't understand Clark is why they didn't capitulate when i complained initially....and why did he claim that he had been advised that he was ällowed to pro rata"?

OP posts:

squiffy · 15/03/2007 16:14

Clerkkent probably best person to answer that one but from what I've seen, the whole city seems to think that pro-rating is totally normal and above board. But there's a very clear distinction between what is covered by maternity leave provisions (salary) and what isn't (bonus). And because it falls outside maternity provisions law then it by definition falls within scope for sex discrimination, and so the logic follow that they can't pro-rate. The problem is that although this is a logical progression that lawyers will go down, there is no clear and unambiguous precedent to cite, because this stuff always gets settled out of court. The closest we got was an Asda V Hoyland case which clarified the position for non-discriminatory bonuses. Theres nothing set out in court though for discriminatory ones.

clerkKent · 16/03/2007 12:51

It sounds to me as if the issue has not reached HR. The line managers have a view, but I think they are wrong.

We also have a policy to pro-rate bonuses for staff on AML, but there is no hard and fast rule, and we would never say to an employee "because you were on maternity leave for half the year we have cut your bonus in half". We would use weasel words like "your bonus has been adjusted to account for your contribution and service in the year". Since your manager has been so forthright, he has given you ammunition to make a claim.

Original poster

hecciesmum · 16/03/2007 13:18

the problem will be proving what he said to me though as he and i were the only people in the room.

the head of the biz has just come back to me and told me that relative to other people who were on maternity leave my "treatment was not inconsistent"....

WHat do I do now?

OP posts:

squiffy · 16/03/2007 14:43

See a lawyer (first visit is free) then draft a letter stating that you feel you have not been treated fairly in the bonus round and that you would like them to set out their reasons in writing for pro-rating (get lawyer to look over a draft of your letter). Then see what happens. That might be enough...

Original poster

hecciesmum · 16/03/2007 20:14

to be honest - i think i am just going to look for something else internally. The best revenge is to walk - i have heard from someone else today that they are scared i will walk - well i will - as soon as i have found something else. It's a big institution and my european contract states that i have the right to seek other employment internally.....

will let you know what happens, but thanks for all the advice guys.

I do feel a bit guilty for all the others that i am not going to fight, but i dont think i have the emotional energy to spare.

OP posts:

squiffy · 19/03/2007 17:14

I sympathise on the energy front - it is a really stressful thing to do.

That said, if you're going to walk anyway then I'm not sure you have much to lose in writing a formal letter saying you think you have been treated unfairly relative to those who have not been on maternity leave, and asking them to set out their reasons in writing. No downside for you in doing that but it might make them stop and think and perhaps backtrack?

Whatever you decide, good luck in finding a new role.

Nikki76 · 19/03/2007 17:19

I think you should persue it...it seems to me as if being on ML qualifies you for crap treatment by companies! Its bonus time in my firm as well and everyone else has heard whether they have a bonus or not and the rationale behind it and I haven't heard a thing.

My pay goes in at midnight tonight so only way I will find out is to check my bank balance first thing in the morning. I'm not expecting anything because bonuses are contribution based and purely because I've been on ML, I haven't contributed - well, thats how they would see it!! But, what's really got my goat is that I haven't been treated the same as anyone else!! No communication, nothing!!

squiffy · 22/03/2007 14:23

Nikki76 - that's appalling. what's happened since Monday?

Nikki76 · 22/03/2007 17:20

Nithing. I got my wage slip in the post today and its just tax credits that I'm owed. No bonus and have not received any rationale for why didn't get one.

Am also having a total mare about return to work hours - asked boss what role I could expect to return to and she said we can't tell you that unless you specify the hours, I specified the hours and she e-mailed back a flat refusal. This soooo contravenes the back to work policy and I was shocked!! I replied and asked her to tell me what role I could expect to go back to so I could fill in my work options form and make a business case for my hours but they still haven't told me and are expecting me to fill it in without this info!!! Am soooooo stressed with this I'm shaking as I type this!! She's so in the wrong to turn my request down without formal consideration in an e-mail and I want to point this out to her!!!

squiffy · 26/03/2007 16:48

Cannot believe how badly some firms treat their staff.

Hope things improve, Nikki. I guess you have by now written a formal letter/email asking for information regarding your bonus this year...

Only advice I can offer is to get every single thing in writing/email - it often stops them doing the wrong thing in the first place and if it doesn't it is just evidence that backs up any formal complaints that you make.

Let us know what happens.

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