Being turned down for a job due to 'references'

[Arkengarthdale]

Hi all - some advice please.

I left my last employer with a settlement agreement after years of mismanagement, including the employer refusing to make reasonable adjustments to support me with a known condition which is classed as a disability - the condition worsened over my time with them due to my working conditions and this was well documented over the time.

Part of the settlement agreement was an agreed reference.

I applied for and was offered a post with a different employer but in the same field. However, this job offer was withdrawn on receipt of references, saying the references were not acceptable. I got a copy of the reference they had been supplied and it was as agreed with my previous employer.

I have asked the new employer which bit of the reference is not satisfactory, as my union rep can't see anything in it which would cause me to be turned down, except my sickness record. When I was told verbally by the office manager that there was a problem with my references, she said it was because I had been off sick so much. This was disability-related sickness and, again, well documented as such.

The potential employer has responded to a subject access request about which bit of the reference was deemed to be unsuitable with a letter from the company secretary saying their decision has been made and they will not enter into any further correspondence (no detail at all about what was in the reference that was unsuitable).

I believe this is disability discrimination. Would any of you have a view on whether this might be so? My previous employer has not provided me with a copy of the reference they sent, despite repeated requests.

I am struggling to find work and am frightened that I may never work again due to 'unsatisfactory references'. I should now have been in work for the past six months - jobs at my level do not come up very often in my location.

My union reps, though verbally supportive, never actually take any action at all. They only respond to me when I go through head office to get some advice, and the responses are only ever that they are waiting for someone or other to get back to them.

This has been ongoing since September and is causing me a lot of anxiety (I have a mental health condition likely to be classed as a disability under the Equality Act - I've never been through a tribunal to have the condition judged as to whether it actually is a disability).

In the previous employment I never once had any disciplinary action taken against me, I was never once told of any problems with my work (four years without a line manager and no appraisals or management support - which formed the basis of a grievance eventually when I had also been bullied for years).

Any advice gratefully received.

You are protected under the Equality Act - discrimination arising from disability.

Check to see if your house or car insurance includes legal protection and give them a call.

As Sheldon says, an agreed reference is easy to spot and that in itself can be a red flag to some employers.

The point is that I only need the support most people take for granted. I cope with the rest on my own. In spite of having this condition I managed to work full time until this. It made me ill, they knew it was making me ill and I now can't get another job. I don't think that is fair.

I'll check my home insurance, thanks. I have an appointment with the CAB tomorrow too.

As LIZS said what you are asking for is what you should take for granted anyway. You have been in a bad place, you need to start believing that the situation will not replicate itself. You were bullied - a lot of people without under lying health issues would be affected by that.

A lot of industry/ private companies do not even ask for references. Try applying for short contracts e.g. maternity cover - all it takes is a few months to get a decent enough reference. The competition will be lower and the likelihood of going through the full vetting system is lower. Best of all if it really doesn't work out you can just walk away at the end of the contract. Even employers that ask for references only ever ask for the current/ last employer - your second can be someone you know would be kind from a few years back.

Agree with RC get some mat leave cover or contract work.
You need to move on and not worry about this ref. It could just be to do with time off - taking one chunk off for an accident or cancer is viewed better than the odd day here or there.
It could also be due to a phone call which happens a lot, I gather with sensitive refs.
Good luck - try not to dwell on the past you clearly are capable and happy to get work so go for something else.

Thank you so much for the responses. My feeling has been to temp for a bit and recover my work mojo. I am very fortunate in that I have the support to work as a temp without having to worry too much about full time every week just to pay the bills.

Thanks all

I'm not sure compromise references are that easy to spot. Lots of employers will only say "Purple was employed between [dates] as a secretary" and that's more or less it. That can be the agreed reference - or it can be the only reference an employer would provide to anyone, regardless of whether they've signed a compromise agreement.

In my field you can always tell a compromise reference.

I think if an employer is worth working for, they will accept that 'life ain't perfect' and for whatever reason, there was a parting of the ways.

Some employers are absolutely uncompromising about references, even withholding a job offer until they are satisfied with the references. I hate that, it puts all the risk onto the employee which is wrong in most cases.

Other employers (invariably those with a more humanitarian ethos) will carry out interviews and take a bona fide explanation from the employee about why they left their last company or are wishing to in future. Then they will use references wisely by not placing excessive store on every aspect of the reference. Mainly they want to be sure there was no gross misconduct, there are many other perfectly valid reasons why a compromise settlement was made, not always completely negative.

I have experienced both types of employer!

OP please try not to give up hope, even though this latest rejection feels harsh. Keep going to interviews and you will find a company who will like you, like the skills you bring and will probably take a pragmatic approach to your references. Can you also try to secure a reference from your previous employer (before the one with the compromise reference?). Sometimes a company will accept a good reference from elsewhere, with the compromise one from current employment simply confirming dates of employment.

You could try giving a brief and reasonably positive (ie, not excessively critical) explanation about what happened, at least to reassure a new employer you are worth giving a chance to, and there's nothing 'sinister in your closet' so to speak!

Thank you so much daisychain. You always post such sense on these topics.

I believe I do know exactly what's happened here. In my previous role I was bullied unmercifully by a colleague who disliked me from the very start. She told everyone she came across that I was utterly useless and basically trashed my professional reputation. Management were well aware of what she was saying and doing and took no steps to intervene and so she ramped up the vitriol until I found I got a hostile reception with people I had never even met, but who had all heard of me. Then one day one of our external partners with whom I had an excellent professional working relationship got the Ark-is-useless rant from her. The partner complained about the unprofessional behaviour and the bully was 'spoken to' by management.

Throughout this time a colleague who subsequently went on to work with the potential new employer (same line of business) worked in the same room as the bully and would have been exposed to the daily rants about how I was useless and rubbish and dangerous etc. Therefore the potential new employer already had info about me from this time. I was surprised to be offered the job as one of the interviewers was very hostile. However it was an personal assistant to a professional role, and the professional really liked me, and I believe the hostile one was overruled. However she got her own way in the end by saying my references weren't good enough. But nobody will admit this.

So I think they've found a reason to turn me down because of my sickness record. However as the sickness was disability-related I want to challenge them on discrimination arising from a disability. The reference states quite clearly that I have great skills and would be a good match for the job description. The only 'negative' in there is they were asked directly for the number of sick days so they were obliged to answer truthfully. I wasn't given an opportunity to explain as the potential new employer cancelled an Occ health report before it was produced.

They also would not accept a previous employer reference as it was from 5 years ago so they made sure they only had the current one to go on.

I feel utterly powerless as I know without a shadow of doubt that I did nothing wrong except suffer from a MH condition which was worsened by what I went through at work. I don't think it's fair that I should be made to suffer more now.

Sorry for length, it helps to own up to my anger and resentment instead of pretending it's all fine and I'm the better person.

So sorry Ark. You have been through an awful time. It must feel like there is no end to it all plus you have the added challenge of a disability although you sound like an absolute trouper! Don't let the buggers grind you down as they say.

I think you need to start afresh with a brand new company where you don't have ghastly people sticking their oar in. I don't know how realistic it is as it may be that you have limited options of employers. It just seems the only way is to distance yourself and start with a blank canvas.

Can you strengthen any transferable skills to reinvent yourself as Ark-Mark-2-deluxe

I think it's more to do with your ability rather than your disability. I wouldn't hire you on the back of an extensive sick record, especially if the sickness was blamed on work conditions because I wouldn't leave my firm open to that kind of challenge sorry

You can apply and recieve disability related benefits whilst in work..... might be worth applying.

I'm doing that daisychain Ark Mark II on the way!

I am also relocating to give self best chance and to leave it all behind. Shame because I have a lovely house and quite a nice DH I'll also be leaving behind (he has very niche work so can't replicate his situation easily anywhere I want to live)

I did want to make them squirm though, I have to admit. Don't mess with the Ark!

Ark I am really sorry to hear this. Your ex-employers sound awful esp if the adjustments were so minor - bit like the situation I am in (had my grievance hearing on Monday BTW). I definitely think maternity cover or as you say even temping could be the way to go on this. I am intrigued as to how it is possible to tell a settlement agreement reference from a normal reference- could those posters explain what they mean as this is an issue that may potentially affect me in future.

Ark Keep your chin up. I was sacked once, a long time ago after the President of the company was sexually harrassing me. I complained to the company and was told that he had been with the company for 25 years and brought in millions of dollars of business and who was I? Just an executive assistant who had been with them for under a year! They sacked me after 11 months and 3 weeks because they knew that once I crossed the year threshold, I could take them to a tribunal. There was no way they would give me a reference, my flat was on the verge of being repossessed as I was going through a divorce and my husband had stopped paying the mortgage. I was suffering from depression too. I was desperate to hold onto the job despite the pig that was harrassing me.

When it happened, I felt as though I was in freefall and like nobody would eve employ me again because I had been sacked. However, I got my CV round to temp agencies and was really upfront about what had happened. I was surprised at how understanding they were and many consultants told me they heard it every day from people coming through the doors looking for work - sexual harrassment, bullying, discrimination etc. Thy are used to people having to look for other things due to horrible bosses/colleagues so please do look into that and please, please do not allow this to get you down. You are competent, good at your job, professional, honest and decent. Don't let these people spoil other jobs for you. I agree with daisychain. Keep your chin up!

Thank you zaazaa for your positive words. I need to remember I'm an ok person and not the monster I was made out to be.

I'd love to know how you got on on Monday - have you updated your other thread?

I have yet another interview lined up and am doing all I can to prepare (I haven't performed very well recently at interview, think perhaps I'm too nervous and unconfident). At least I'm getting interviews although I find them so stressful and difficult.

Good luck!

Absolutely you are OK Ark, nobody has the right to rip you to shreds. Keep us posted on how things go with ArkMark-II !

Zaazaa, it would be great to get an update from you, if you feel OK about updating your thread.

I ( and I'm sure other people) can talk about compromise references as well. In honesty, as I mentioned upthread, it largely depends on the attitude of the new employer, as to how much weighting they place on a person's previous references.

Well I've been offered another job and am just on tenterhooks waiting to hear if references will be ok.

Told the truth at interview about why I left without harping on and was thanked for my honesty.

Let's see, shall we?

Well done Ark.

I completely agree with DaisyChain. Try not to dwell on your last job or the job where you had a problem with references.

As one door closes another will open. Just try to be as positive as you can. The right job will come along.

Absolutely everything crossed for you Ark You deserve a break and to be happy

Thank you yorkshirepudding and zaazaa

I agree with those who suggest temping/contracting. It gives you a chance of proving yourself. In the last year I moved two of my contractors onto perm contracts as I was so pleased with them. Both had a history of long term illnesses which need to be supported to an extent but I wanted their skills and they were the best candidates by far.