new colleague being paid more than me!

[eefs]

I'm looking for advise on how to tackle this : while I was on Mat leave a new person was taken on (he was due to be taken on in anycase - it's not linked to my Mat leave). A month or two later I had my annual review where I was given a 5% rise.
the new colleague is travelling at the moment and at his request I searched for some papers in his office. I came across his offer letter and I found out he had started on more than my rise bought me up to - a good few k in fact. During my review I was told it had been a hard year and 5% was the max anyone was getting.
I'm fairly pi$$ed off - I love this company, but it's not the first time that I've felt it's a bit of an old boys club. It's not the money (though that would be nice too), it's the principle - I've been here for 3 years and before he even started this new guy was valued more than me. I've worked hard for this company, down to travelling to the far corners of the world when heavily pregnant and working late/weekends when required.
So what do I do? I want to say something but I was not supposed to have seen the offer letter. Any ideas how I go about this?

God eefs, I do sympathise. It seems to me it's a clear case of discrimination since if you're doing equal work of equal value then you should be paid equally. It seems to me that you could admit to having seen the offer letter since you were looking in his office at his request - i.e. you weren't snooping: he left it there, you saw it. I don't know how you could tackle it in a diplomatic way though. Is there an HR dept? How would you feel about going to them and saying look, I've seen the letter, (can you get a copy btw?) it's discrimination, I want the same money. Might it then be resolved by their advising your manager that they need to pay you the same money? I'd be mightily pissed off in your situation too, I hope someone comes along with some good ideas in a minute.

do you think I need a copy? I can get one today, colleague is back tomorrow, but it feels a bit underhand to do this. I'll take a copy just to have maybe, but I won't produce it. We don't have a HR dept. I think I need some way of saying that I know what X is on, without reavealing how I know. Also - why should I be paid equal - I should be on more than him! We have both been working the same length of time, but I have 3 years more relevant experience. I do want to continue working here so would be reluctant to start shouting "discrimination". gah

Dear eefs. I am an old HR chick and believe me I've seen some inequality in my day. I would certainly encourage you to ask for a raise. I wouldn't take a copy of that guys offer - that is just an invasion of his privacy. I would be 99% sure that you couldn't claim discrimination - you certainly couldn't in Oz in the private sector. The other guy just probably haggled harder when he started and may have just started at a more favourable time in the market.

I would just base your request on the fact that your value is higher in the market place (which you can check perhaps online at monster and from the newspapers etc) and that you have checked it against what competitors are offering and what you 'believe' others in your company are paid.

I think that a lot of the time women aren't paid as much as men simply because they aren't as hard a negotiators and are more prone to be loyal and are more likely to accept the old 'we haven't had the best year' argument.

Having said that IMO the easiest way to get more money and get to the top quickly anywhere is by changing jobs fairly frequently and negotiating hard at the time of offer. Once you are in the company significant annual reviews can be very hard to come by. Lots of crafty men get bigger raises by threatening to leave and waving other offers under their bosses noses. The thing is that getting other offers does take time and effort - time and effort that they should be putting into their job - BUT men are just much more likely to look after number one in the workplace.

Don't take it too personally. If your company doesn't have a HR dept then your boss probably wasn't even prompted to check the new guys relativity to you at the time of hire or when you got your salary review - he might need the prompt to see the error of his ways.

If you want to post more specifics maybe I could help you out further if you are interested.

AussieSim - is that true? is it legal for people doing the same work to be paid different amounts? I hadn't thought so. You are right though - I've never negotiated a raise, but changing jobs has bought me a decent salary.
It's not colleague's fault, just his good luck that he's being paid a decent amount. I didn't take a copy of his letter - it felt wrong, and I'm glad now when I see your post.

I am rightly annoyed though, I talked it through with a friend last night and she pointed out that I will end up resenting my work if I don't do anything about it.
I've learnt (in work ironically) that the person who says the least in a negotiation wins the most. I think I'll tell them I know, ask them to justify it and wait for their answer. I understand they may have had to pay him more to get him, but to plead poverty to me a few months later is horrible unfair.
Any suggestions on how I phrase this? Do you think I'm right to make an issue of it. Now I'm wound up I think I'm going to ask for a decent raise while I'm at it. (greedy moi)

bump? anyone?

Well being a nosey cow I happen to know that in the firm of lawyers I work for, the highest paid fee earners are boss's best friend (zero legal experience prior to starting in 2001 but has now completed his 2nd year law degree) and a litigation exec with about 4 years legal experience and has just sat LPC exams), next comes his sister in law (zero legal experience prior to starting in October 2003 but ditto best friend exams), next highest is trainee sol (law degree, LPC, 2y paralegal position, due to qualify next Spring. Then comes 2 paralegals both with law degrees, LPC's due to start a training contract in July. Where's the fairness in all that?

My goodness Eefs, I'd be seeeeeeeething! I work for an "all boys stick together" type company too. And I have a sneaky suspicion the guys doing my job get paid more than me.... but have no evidence to back that up.

You had permission to look through the papers, so I would admit to having seen the offer letter and take the issue up with your boss. That is a disgrace IMO. on you behalf.

I think you should just explain what happened and ask them if they could offer you an explanation as to why he was started on a higher salary than you are on now etc etc.... And explain that this has left you feeling gorssly undervalued and that you're wondering if perhaps the company are taking advantage of you. That should at least make them sit up, take notice and explain themselves..... if they possible CAN explain it!

Good luck.

No advice i'm afraid but we do have the same problem with my Dp.
When he started (pest controller) at the company he's with, he was on just over 12000. He has now been there for about 3 yrs and his money is now 12350. Whilst he's been there he has picked up several more qualifications/certificates relating to pest control.
However when ever any one new starts there (experianced or not) they start on about 14500.

He has asked them about it several times, but he always gets fobbed off.

I think it's disgusting and so unfair.

This is a perennial problem in companies which do not have a grading structure. E.g. within the NHS, particular jobs have a particular grade and all people on that grade are paid the same. You know at the outside what grade a particular job is and, if a new employee starts doing the same job as you, you know they will be paid the same.

However, where this sort of sytem does not exist, it's a bit of a free for all. To a degree I can understand the employers problem. They advertise a job and a suitable applicant applies. They are currently paying £10K for that job, but the applicant says that s/he is being paid £12K at their current job. So, what do the employers do? If they want the applicant, they either have to match or better the applicant's current pay. Hence the anomalies. Actually this happened at my last job, but my employers had the decency to come to me and say that, as they were having to pay a new employee more, they would increase my salary to match .

IME, the best thing to do in these situations is to take the bull by the horns. Go to your employers, tell them that you know that x is being paid more than you, with less experience, qualifications, etc. (you don't have to say how you know) and what do they intend to do about it? You could indicate that you are extremely upset and even ask if this is to do with the fact that you are female. That should put the wind up them with visions of sex discrimation floating before them.

My sympathies eefs. I agree with the comment that the only decent pay rise one can normally get is by moving jobs. In the company I work for I've seen a number of situations where valued, long-standing staff have left and are replaced by less experienced staff earning more (ironic, given that one of the reasons why the original staff left was often money). Companies are bad about re-appraising pay rates in line with the market, over and above the annual increase (btw 5% was a decent rise compared to here). That may have happened in this situation - they had to pay £x to the new person because that is the market rate. In that case you are being paid less than market - particularly given your experience - and I would request that a re-appraisal be made. I would not admit the source of your information about the colleague's pay unless you really have to.

I agree with Freckles advice (and others). You are most certainly entitled to equal pay until the Equal Pay Act of 1970, search Equal Pay on the Equal Opportunities Commission website www.eoc.org.uk for full details. If you need a free bit of advice before speaking to your employer you could contact Acas www.acas.co.uk they have a helpline number on here. Again, following on from Freckle, I would say that you're most upset and drop the Equal Pay act into the conversation just so they know they can't pull the wool over your eyes. Good luck

Eefs,

I don't think you should admit to having read this letter. You were asked to look for something on your colleague's desk. You should not have read the details of a letter that was addressed to him, I would guess you could see almost immediately that it was not the document you were seeking. I would be quite angry if I was him, that you had read it (but he's a chump for leaving it in his desk anyway). I also don't think telling your employers you have read the letter will do your professional standing any good.

The different pay stuff happens all the time. If you try to confront your employers over it they will probably say he had more experience than you/a better degree/wider technical knowledge or any such excuse. The simple fact was that they wanted him for the job, and offered what they thought would make him accept.

As aussiesim says, check your salary with what is common in your industry. If you are being underpaid, then go to the boss with that. If you're getting the going rate, and your colleague is being 'overpaid' then your company will probably expect more of him in the long run anyway (no such thing as a free lunch, you know). He may be on a probationary period with mega targets or something.

Finally ask yourself this. Were you badly dissatisfied with your salary before you read this letter? If the answer is no, then learn the lesson, you don't do yourself any good by snooping around.

Oh, and if none of this helps, sell your services and experience to someone else. You'll probably get paid more than their long-standing employees when you start a new job!

Eefs, I agree with the rest about negociating skills at the time the offer is made, however I remember that once I interviewed a couple of persons for two identical positions, one asked for X and the other one for 2x, the first one was not as good as the second, nor the second deserved that salary but we REALLY needed to fill those positions fast, so they both got the jobs for the salaries they had requested themselves.

They happened to be classmates while at college and they compared their salaries and when they found the difference they both complained to HR, one complained because he thought he deserved more, the other one because she thought she could not be sure she was going to get the salary we offered, after several conversations the head of HR was so annoyed that both offers of employment were cancelled.

Of course, I'm not saying that anything of this is going to happen but it maybe that the company is paying that because they really needed him, and it may be that you are not getting more because you need to do some negociation yourself. Anyway, I think that what would make all the difference in your favour is how well do you aproach your boss when asking for a rise, you can mention about your colleague's salary, but I think it would be better to concentrate in why you deserve to be paid more.

Good luck!

Easy's point is very goo one, it could ruin your relationship with your colleague as well as causing him some problems, but the more damaged would be you, what if your boss thinks you are not trust worthy? that can have even worse repercussions for your future with the company...

gooD one, I mean...

Easy - I could see straight away that it wasn't what I was looking for, but as the offer letter laid out in the same order as mine and the figure is on the cover page, it would have been impossible to just close my eyes and hide the page from myself. I think X is a bit silly to have kept it lying around though (it wasn't in a drawer, it was lying out under some papers on his desk).
I am not going to tell X that I've seen it, nor am I going to tell my boss how I know.
I do suspect that they had to offer X this much to get him, I understand that.
It's still unfair (and apologies for being sentimental enough to think that fairness has anything to employment, but in my opinion I'll treat them fairly if they treat me fairly), and it rankles to think of my boss's kindly sincere face as he sits there knowing that X is on more than I am, while I stand over X showing him how to do his job. I am resolved to say something - I'm still not sure how to phrase it. Toothache -that's exactly it - I feel grossly undervalued. Nutcracker - your poor DH, how infuriating. Why does he stay?

Hi....I use the maternatiy allicance website a lot. Its good.

If you suspect that you are not being paid equally you are allowed by law to request details of a colleagues salary so you can judge.

This is either detailed on the Matenity allicance site or on the Trade and Industry site...I will try and find where, but its something Patricia Hewitt implemented.

Eefs, here's the EOC site on equal pay sorry, but I do think you're entitled to the same money, I really do! Maybe the law doesn't support that but it seems morally correct to me. here's another site with useful info. and here's an equal pay questionnaire . Might be something helpful in that lot.

here it is...sorry can't do links:

www.womenandequalityunit.gov.uk/

look under women and pay and there you can see the guidelines on equal pay and how you go about raising it with your employer ie. pay questionaire.

Of course it's annoying but think of it as a bargaining tool to get more money for yourself rather than a personal slight.
There is no obligation in the private sector to pay people doing similar jobs the same amount and I'm sure they could find ways to justify paying him more if they wanted to.
The reality is that if he was on about the same as you in his previous job he will have wanted a rise to move. So would you if you were considering moving.
I have been with the same company for 15 years and I know that lots of younger people with less experience get paid as much or more than me. However I don't get paid too badly, I get lots opf security from my long contract etc, so I haven't been driven to move yet. If I did I would expect a big pay rise, but if I stay then I expect I will get a very modest one as usual.
That's life. It's not discrimination it's just business reality. People pay what they can get away with paying - so if you don't want them to get away with underpaying you then you will have to kick up a stink. But on the basis of your merit, not on the basis of having seen this guy's letter - that will have the opposite effect.

eefs, so you are looking for some words. I don't know what kind of job/industry/culture you are working in but using a little tool I refer to as the 60 second script (try to get it out in 60 seconds and then listen patiently while they respond and then take it from there).

Thanks for making the time to meet with me today.

• I would like to discuss how my contribution to the company is valued in the form of salary.
• I recently discovered that my salary is below the going market rate and less then others employed here with less experience.
• The impact on me has been that I feel discouraged and it has affected my motivation.
• The impact on the company is that it is in danger of losing a committed and hard-working employee - me.
• I would like to understand how this situation has arisen and what you would be prepared to do about it.

Before you go in have in mind what you would like the outcome of the meeting to be e.g., how much pay rise you would like, when the new salary should be effective from, if there are any other benefits or conditions that you would accept instead of cash (hours, office, parking space whatever). It would be best if you were armed with some market data and were aware of your salary history and performance rating history with the company (if you have a system).

If your boss is just totally taken aback and unprepared then you might suggest he consider the situation and get back to you, within a day or two.

HTH Sim

AussieSim - thanks for your brilliant advise. I finally have my boss and I in the office at the same time - I'll let you all know how I get on. Ohhh I feel so nervous.

Thanks all for the links - my initial kneejerk reaction was that it was illegal, interesting to know that it isn't necessarily.