Formal Complaint of Racism- Help!

[OhBollocksFuck]

I've NC as this is quite outing.

I work in the back office (10 people, all women, desk work) doing logistics for delivery drivers (27 people, mostly men, out and about all day).

We've had a bloke called Steve (not his real name) working as a delivery driver for years. Steve is black. Then another Steve came. So the original Steve became known as 'black Steve', which he's completely fine with, and new Steve became 'white Steve' which he's also fine with. We also have 'Short Trev' and 'Tall Trev' for two blokes called Trev. They're descriptions just to differentiate.

A new woman has started in the back office with us and asked me the other day what to do with an order which needed express sending. I told her to give it to 'black Steve' for various reasons. She's seemed quite nice, a little bit up-tight perhaps but that's usual when starting a new place.

Fast-forward to today and my manager has called me in the office to let me know that this new woman has put in a complaint about me using racist language. He's arranged a formal meeting with me and her for next Friday to talk through the complaint and see 'where we go' (his words). I'm in a union so I've got a union representative coming with me but I'm completely flawed by it.

I don't know what to do. I'm trying to remain calm and professional with this woman but I'm angry and upset. I don't want to mention anything to black Steve but, at the same time, it feels odd that there's all this going on with him being at the centre but him not really knowing. I also know that if I did mention it some of the drivers would take issue with her and I don't want them to get themselves into any trouble either.

I don't know what I'm asking really TBH. just some words of wisdom and advice from MNers would be breat!

[drspouse]

If this is racist then it's racist to say "Can you go and chat to that customer by that display?"

"OK which one, there are two?"

"The black one".

If that's the easiest way to distinguish them, then it's the logical way to talk about them. It's a statement of fact. It is not prejudiced to say that someone with black skin is Black. It is true.

However what would be racist is:

"Which customer?" (or which Steve)
"The ghetto one"
or
"The one who's good at sport".
Both racist, one positive, one negative.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Midsummers you're right - even amongst friends - I don't call my mate who's visited from Thailand who happens to be mixed race - I don't call him that - its 'Rob' or 'Rob who lives in Thailand now you know?' etc. even when younger it was Rob or whatever either a longer or shortened version of Robert.

[CrazyDuchess]

Dr spouse - we are not talking like it was a one off incident like your example highlights.

[OldBootNewBoots]

I'd defend myself along the lines that this is general workplace culture and you agree the culture needs changing - do you have evidence of the manager/other bosses or staff using these terms that you can specifically mention?

[SuperFlyHigh]

Mozfan she seems to think it's perfectly ok to call him Black Steve or else she wouldn't be doing it now would she? and because 'everyone else does it' that also seemed to cement it in her mind that it was ok, and why should she get told off??

[Gazelda]

For enough OP. FWIW, I understand why this has become usual practice in your organisation, although flabbergasted it's gone on for 6 years. Hopefully your manager will acknowledge that he is responsible for not having appreciated how this 'banter' may be seen by outsiders or people new to the job. I completely agree that you shouldn't become the scapegoat.
But please give the new colleague a break - she might have raised it with the manager who said "give me an example". She wasn't wrong to raise it, don't let a problem develop between you 2.

[Mozfan1]

She said in previous posts that she wants to know why it's her Bing singled out for using it even though everyone does- which is fair enough, if everyone has done it for 6 years she's not the only guilty party. Fwiw I don't agree with the language either but it is a specific situation.

[StickyProblem]

Steve may well have been there for years, but time has moved on. It's no longer appropriate to use "black" or "gay" as nicknames and your whole workplace needs to move on and stop doing it. Whether he didn't mind at the time, or started it off, doesn't matter. Your workplace should assume it would be offensive to a new person starting (whether someone with a protected characteristic or not) and just stop.

Perhaps you could call him "BS", or would that be worse?!

[MaudGonneMad]

Perhaps she's being 'singled out' because she used that nickname directly to the new co-worker in reference to Steve.

[CrazyDuchess]

Agree Moz I also think she should find out why she is being singled out.... but must really stop using those terms in her posts

[OhBollocksFuck]

OldBoots I've started a log book today to record dates/times that anyone in my office (including manager) uses anything but a colleagues' name to refer to them. I'm sure I'll have examples come next week.

SuperFly As I've said my issue is that I'm being singled out to be 'told off' when the behaviour is endemic

[BarelyKeepingItTogether]

My manager has asked black Steve to come into the office this afternoon for a quick chat.

You're doing it on purpose now, aren't you? It's not like 'Black Steve' could have just slipped out given that Steve isn't even his real name.

[P1nkP0ppy]

Op is being scapegoated in my opinion, the guy himself said 'Call me Black Steve'. In that case where is it racist and what would you do? Refuse to call him it if he's said he's fine with it?
That's world's away from using it as an insult surely?

[CrazyDuchess]

Pink poppy - even is Steve asked to be called that... and to be fair he might have just accepted the situation... we don't really know. Common sense should prevail that even if Steve doesn't find it offensive doesn't mean everyone else is okay with it..... we are all individuals with different levels of tolerance and the complainant obviously found the term offensive

[CrazyDuchess]

And I agree this is clearly bigger than the OP

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

You could ask one of them to wear a bandana, answer "Yarr" to everybody and rechristen them Pirate Steve or I might have been watching Dodgeball again

[exWifebeginsat40]

if you sat down in a disciplinary with me and said 'but everyone does it' I'd probably think about firing you for gross misconduct. what other people do has absolutely no bearing on this.

think about how you can make this right - worrying about other people's behaviour just detracts from you addressing your own.

[CrazyDuchess]

Kimmy dodgeball was a totally underrated movie in my opinion!

[drspouse]

we are not talking like it was a one off incident like your example highlights.

If it's racist to use it in general it's racist to use it as a one off though. Using it once doesn't make it less racist (except it isn't).

It's not ideal to use physical characteristics to distinguish colleagues. I don't call the two Peters I work with "grey haired Peter" and "dark haired Peter", I call them "Peter Brown" and "Peter Smith" or occasionally in rapid email revert to primary school terminology and call them Peter B and Peter S.

Just because it's unadvisable to use this type of description as a regular distinguishing characteristic of a long-standing colleague does not mean it's racist to use it. It's not racist to say Tall Trev and Short Trev but it's still not the best way to distinguish them every day.

If introducing them for the first time, it is NOT racist to point out which one is which based on (any kind of) appearance. That's when you add another piece of info to make it clear on a daily basis.

Other alternatives could be "Trev in accounts" or "Steve on the evening shift" or "Blue van Paul". Doesn't have to be formal/last names though of course those are easier.

[OhBollocksFuck]

exWife I obviously won't sit in a meeting and say 'but everybody does it' like a petulant child. As I have said numerous times above, I will make the point that whilst I accept it's an unprofessional term and will amend my behaviour, I will not accept having a mark against my name when the behaviour isn't isolated to just me and is part of a wider culture that needs addressing. At that point I shall present my log book with dates/times/names of every occasion between today and next Friday where any of my colleagues have referred to any other colleague by anything but their proper name.

[SuperFlyHigh]

P1nkP0ppy just because the man himself tells the office to call him Black Steve doesn't mean someone else in the office may find that racist. On that basis it seems to be ok to the OP and her colleagues that they could call the new person Brown Paula or something like that... when of course it is not ok!

Maud you've nailed it - OP used the phrase directly to the new worker instead of to Steve.

OP just because the behaviour is endemic does not mean you have to go along with it - are you a sheep or something??!! This is something I have had in the past but no way just because someone else says 'do it' do I do it or say it too! Tough if it loses me friends!

and as Maud says I think this is correct why you've been reported because you used the phrase directly to the new worker when speaking to her/him about Steve.

My overriding issue with this is that despite you apologising OP you still seem to think it's perfectly OK to do this because everyone else does it and Black Steve thinks it is ok.

[CrazyDuchess]

regular distinguishing characteristic of a long-standing colleague does not mean it's racist to use it. It's not racist to say Tall Trev and Short Trev but it's still not the best way to distinguish them every

I get what you are saying, but as a one off descriptor of someone that is fine - think about describing someone who committed a crime or in general conversation where you don't know the persons name....

But being tall is not a protected characteristic so cannot be compared.

I think we agree either way using any physical or protected characteristics to regularly name a coworker is just not advisable.

[SuperFlyHigh]

Your last post makes it clear that you ARE a petulant child OP.

I'd sack you for this.

suppose you move towns/jobs still think this is ok eh??

[KimmySchmidtsSmile]

Indeed it was duchess it still makes me laugh now ("L for love"!) Did you also see The Job? I loved that so much. Crazyhead is on tonight, I am looking forward to that too

[FictionalCharacter]

Will Steve who initiated his own "nickname" be told that wasn't acceptable to introduce himself that way? I wonder why he did it though? It's a bit odd. i wonder what he would have said if anyone told him "no, no Steve, you can't call yourself / we can't call you that".