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Unusual situation - Need advice. Concerns about summons

59 replies

HRarehoundingme · 25/10/2016 19:15

Unusual situation as I work for a small domestic company that has few employees and no HR.

September

Employer states to myself and other people that she has no concerns and is happy with my work.

Employer states in an email that I am their 999 and they can trust me explicably.

Time line

19th September I was made to attend an unscheduled meeting with employer, no prior warning given throughout the day etc /unable to bring representative. At 6pm when leaving told we need to speak.

Employer recorded the meeting on her mobile phone; I have not received a copy of this and am unaware of its use/storage etc.

Told allegations were made but not told what these allegations were/the timeline so unable to provide an adequate response.

I was told there were 2 routes to take 1 to leave/1 to have disciplinary action - I would be allowed to choose which was better option.

Told not to come in on the 20th and would have a phone call to discuss what would happen next.

20th September no phone call although employer alleges she called.

21st September email terminating contract received. NOT FOR GROSS MISCONDUCT JUST TERMINATING CONTRACT. I responded immediately to advise I had received the document. No opportunity to meet again to allow me to present my case etc. I am unhappy with the wording of the termination email and state this in my email.

Between 21st September - 8th October I receive several other emails/phone messages from the employer.

8th October several phone calls from both employers over the course of a 9 hour period.

9th October several phone calls from both employers culminating with employer turning up on my doorstep to engage in a meeting.

10th October meeting with employers. Employer annoyed that she had been asked for 2 references despite me still working for her (termination in place not still in employment ) Employer states there were concerns raised by my own personal acquaintances. These were not to do with my role/position but about character and personality. Another meeting arranged for the 14th October made.

13th October I am made aware that the meeting on the 14th October is to be cancelled.

21st October I am told to attend a meeting again with the employer but this will be carried out with a friend in a professional capacity friend is a HR specialist.

I have since been made aware that prior to events the employer was asking personal acquaintances of mine opinions on my character and trying to find out information about my personal life.

Since the termination i have not received my p45, the promised 6 week salary has not been paid and I have not been reimbursed my expenses. The job centre states that no comment has been made by my employer regarding my application for jsa. I still have belongings at the property which I need to collect; I have advised that I will collect when the employer is absent but in the presence of a colleague but this has not been arranged.

As a former employee I don't believe I need to attend any meetings, respond to emails or phone calls which I see as least as badgering or at most as harassment causing me undue stress and anxiety.

Could you please advise in an informal entity whether you believe there is anything to gain from another meeting.

Had there been an opportunity to provide a way back into the workforce I would understand the need for meetings but as such and with the termination contract worded as such I don't understand the reasoning behind it all.

OP posts:
ninenicknames · 25/10/2016 21:57

Go and see a solicitor for the free 20mins consultation

Balletgirlmum · 25/10/2016 21:57

No, they can't sack you at the meeting. They can only sack you afteR a formal disciplinary meeting where you have the right to be accompanied.

You've got a really good unfair dismissal case.

tigerdriverII · 25/10/2016 21:58

Also it's a misconception that employers can't sack people. They can - it's a question of risk?benefit

PersianCatLady · 25/10/2016 21:58

Without actually knowing the whole story it is really hard to fully understand what is going on here and if your employer is acting illegally.

Obviously you don't want to reveal all here as it could be very outing but I think that you need to get onto the CAB first thing tomorrow because realistically no-one can really advise you correctly from the details that you have given here.

tigerdriverII · 25/10/2016 22:01

Dismissal without warning is usually Unfair but not necessarily a breach of contract. Either way, in 99% of cases, it's effective

MerylPeril · 25/10/2016 22:02

Considering how far this has gone it really doesn't sound like an 'informal' meeting.

I am thinking they don't want you to come with representation

HRarehoundingme · 25/10/2016 22:10

Basically the allegations were that I was seen being grumpy with the children? A lot of people have supported my role and said no issues re care - nannies and bosses/other parents. And in fact when my ex employer has been asked for a reference 3 times now - I have had a glowing feedback from her apart from we clashed on a few things (I am slightly firmer but not in any detrimental way) and been offered all 3 jobs.

OP posts:
anotherdayanothersquabble · 25/10/2016 22:22

Get some advice. Go to the meeting with representation or with a friend. I cannot see how they can deny you having someone else in the meeting.

Yes, you could still be sacked but you are entitled to have your side heard even if the outcome is still the same and they still owe you for time worked plus notice unless the offence is something stated in your contract as something that results in instant dismissal without notice. Read your contract.

Decide what you want out of a meeting. And ultimately if you don't want to go, set out your reasons why you do not wish to attend if acas or your nanny insurance agrees with that as a course of action.

PersianCatLady · 25/10/2016 22:35

Basically the allegations were that I was seen being grumpy with the children
If that is all they are accusing you of then it doesn't sound like it could be classed as "gross misconduct" by any stretch.

Please get some advice ASAP.

Balletgirlmum · 25/10/2016 22:37

Glad you are getting advice OP. Hope you have a good outcome.

HRarehoundingme · 25/10/2016 23:16

And grumpy at times. It wain't that I was a grumpy strict nanny and the kids never had fun and there were concerns. As said the other bosses have been great and ecour aged me to s babysit/come over etc

OP posts:
footballmum · 26/10/2016 07:30

You've been dismissed so there's no obligation upon you to go to another meeting. It sounds as though your former employer has had some advice and realises they've ballsed up so are trying to back pedal.

You've got more than 2 years service so you can make a claim for unfair dismissal but if you've got another job immediately it may not be financially worthwhile doing so as compensation is based on loss of earnings.

If you're owed salary, notice pay and accrued holiday pay you can recover that.

Email them and say that you won't be attending their meeting as you consider your employment has been terminated by virtue of the email dated X. Say you consider you are owed £X for outstanding salary, notice pay and holiday and if that is not paid within 7 days you will take legal action to recover it. Then don't engage in any further correspondence with them. If you aren't paid within the time limit start the ACAS Early Conciliation process which is the first stage in the Employment Tribunal
Process. Watch out for your time limits. You must start the EC process within 3 months of your termination date.

Oh, and not many employment solicitors will give "20 mins free advice"!! If you're lucky enough to find one that does, great, but it's a myth that's often rolled out on here that we all offer this as part of our service!!

HRarehoundingme · 26/10/2016 08:55

Thanks football mum.

Just about to call acas (have filled in the form) popping over to cab when it opens. A nanny bosses husband is going to speak with me later as he is in management but probably can't help.

OP posts:
HRarehoundingme · 26/10/2016 12:17

CAB say I don't have to go

ACAS conciliatory service say I don't have to go

OP posts:
Shakey15000 · 26/10/2016 12:28

Sounds appalling

footballmum · 26/10/2016 12:34

Are ACAS going to contact them re the outstanding payments?

youarenotkiddingme · 26/10/2016 12:55

Yep I agree with others.

Basically they terminated your contract incorrectly and now want to pretend they didn't so you don't claim UD.

Good luck with ACAS - they are very helpful

HRarehoundingme · 26/10/2016 12:56

ACAS mediator has said she will call the employer to ask for my money, my expenses, and discuss providing a reference. I have said to hold off as I realise I have legal cover so just want 1 more opinion and then will tell her to call. Mediator and CAB have said I can attend this meeting I have been summoned to on Friday with support and say it's a courtesy but I am under no obligation to stay and can leave at any point.

I'm shattered :(

OP posts:
footballmum · 26/10/2016 14:20

I wouldn't go if I were you. It's for their benefit, not yours! Tell them to put everything they want to say in writing and that you'll consider it and respond accordingly

HRarehoundingme · 28/10/2016 11:51

SO I went to the meeting.

I did feel bullied at times but I made sure they knew it was a courtesy. They kept alluding to me still being employed by the family and that it was best of I signed an agreement rather than have proceedings placed against me. They keep alluding to allegagions and threatening a bad reference if I don't agree. They kept saying as I still work for them ; a point that acas cab and a lawyer have disputed - I have an email stating termination of employment.

Aaarggh

OP posts:
HRarehoundingme · 28/10/2016 11:53

But I stood my ground argues concisely pulled them up on any threats made and when at the end they said as a gesture of goodwill will they'd give me my belongings I finished the meeting and left. I feel so empowered despite everything that I stood up for me against 2 of them. I don't think they thought I'd know anything.

OP posts:
lougle · 28/10/2016 12:38

Did you retort that if they didn't give you your belongings they'd be guilty of theft? Shock

HRarehoundingme · 28/10/2016 13:06

I did kinda laugh say "you're giving my belongings back as a gesture of goodwill?!" Scoffed then put on my coat and promptly walked out.

OP posts:
HRarehoundingme · 29/10/2016 13:04

So a settlement agreement has been posted through my door today,

If an employer has to pay for the employee to see a lawyer [costs up to £150] do I just arrange an appointment with someone?

OP posts:
footballmum · 29/10/2016 15:25

Yes but you'll struggle to find anyone to do it for £150. £250 is the minimum and if you're in London I suspect itd be more like £500. Make sure you see a specialist employment lawyer.

Get some quotes then get your former employer to agree to an increase in the legal fees before you make an appointment-you don't want to be out of pocket. If they won't tell them you won't be signing their ageement. Don't forget, you're in the position of power here.