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Original poster

are all the women deserting IT?

42 replies

paddingtonbear1 · 19/01/2007 09:20

One of my managers just showed me one of her computing newsletters, which said many women had deserted IT by the time they were 40 due to long hours and lack of flexible working. I've been in IT for years and have definitely noticed the number of women declining. The last 2 courses I went on, I was the only woman! I think my firm are unusual in that they do offer flexible working - which is mainly why I'm still here. I was offered another job last year but the company wouldn't even entertain flexi time, so I turned it down. They were a very large firm as well! Anyone else out there in IT? Have you found the same? Just interested!

OP posts:
purplemonkeydishwasher · 19/01/2007 09:25

my dh is in IT. and i think in the last 3 places he's worked there;s been one woman and she was severly bullied.

southeastastra · 19/01/2007 09:32

it's never really been marketed as a good career for women has it? even the ads on tv for computeach etc the woman is a 'website designer'. if i had a daughter i would be pleased if she got an IT job.

Original poster
paddingtonbear1 · 19/01/2007 15:19

I guess it still has a bit of a 'geeky' image. Out of all my old school classmates, (all girls school!) I was the only one to go into IT. Noone else was remotely interested! I guess I may have been lucky in that I've worked for several companies, but have never yet been bullied. Mind you bullying in the workplace isn't limited to IT.

OP posts:
ProfYaffle · 19/01/2007 15:25

My dh is a software developer and in his last job the office was about 50% female, they were quite good on flexible working but most of the women there were single and childless. His current job is less flexible and has fewer women.

I do think there's rampant sexism in the industry though, one of dh's colleagues told me he's never employ a women in her 40s. He couldn't really back it up just thought there was no way an older women could have the skills he was looking for

NotQuiteCockney · 19/01/2007 15:30

I used to work in IT, but in the City. It was so so far from flexible working or child-friendly, I didn't even really consider going back.

Every so often I get a pimp call, and I explain that, sure, I'd take part time or from home or whatever, and they go away really fast.

Seriously, I do miss it, but there are so few places that are flexible. (I'm told John Lewis are.)

USAUKMum · 19/01/2007 16:08

I used to be in IT as well.In fact was working as a consultant when DD was born as I thought it would be flexible. And it was to a point (ie I was allowed to work 3 days) but the days were long (I was gone 12 hrs a day) and got calls on my day off. After DS was born, I just had enough. A friend has his own firm, so am on his list if anthing comes up that I can do from home. .....two years nothing, so will have to continue eating bonbons (at least that's what they think I do all day)

The thing with IT is that deadlines have become v. agressive for delivery in a lot of companies. Which usually results in long hours.

My DH on the other hand (also in IT -- just promoted to Development Manager) has a good company. He works 9 - 5:30, about 1/2 hr drive away. So it works out great.

Lauriefairycake · 19/01/2007 16:27

I worked in IT till 2003 - was the only female in the last three companies I worked for and in my last position I was horribly bullied.

They sent me to coventry, told rude jokes only when I walked in the room, pretended to fuck me from behind when I was bent over equipment, renamed my equipment C**T so I could see it when I logged on to it, hid my stuff........

I've retrained now but I still have nightmares where I wake up and think I have to get up to go to work there

I think the numbers are going down - with so much of the equipment now coming in from abroad and just being rebadged here it's got a lot more aggressive with longer hours

Original poster
paddingtonbear1 · 19/01/2007 17:02

OMG Laurie that sounds horrible. No wonder you left! USAUKMum, your dh's firm sounds like mine and my dh's (who is also in IT). My job isn't entirely safe in the longer term which is why I've been looking around a bit, but i agree - as soon as you mention 'flexibility' they seem to run a mile. I just hope my firm doesn't go bust!! I have no clue what I'd retrain in, atm I can't afford to.
Is anyone else on MN still in IT? if so what's your experience?

OP posts:
StrangeTown · 19/01/2007 19:18

Hello

I am CTO for (US) company, been with them for 12 years.
At the moment, I do have a lot of flexibility in terms of hours and working from home. I have 2 bosses one in Europe and one in US and so it is convenient for me to work later in the day.
I recently had a miscarriage, so both my bosses are aware I am trying to start a family. When (if!) I do, I am concerned about what my options will be. They don't have a great track record at allowing senior man managers to work part time for example and I don't want to be sidelined for not always being available at the drop of a hat to travel.
I haven't been bullied, I did find it difficult to manage technical (all male) staff early on in my career, but now it's the norm. I think in the right organisation, careers in IT can be great for women. Being a minority can sometimes be positive, people usually remember you.

StrangeTown · 19/01/2007 19:20

Laurie - you situation sounds horrific btw. I do sympathise and am glad you no longer have to suffer this!

StrangeTown · 19/01/2007 19:24

Sorry about the bad typing. Balancing laptop on knee!

ZZMum · 19/01/2007 19:27

I work in IT as a manager do not experience bullying.. defo sexism... lost manager job when I came back from mat leave.. and HR did f* all about it.. my current job (back to where i was 5 years later managing large team) is great well paid, flexible, challenging... but will urn out in a couple of years so I need to train again...

ZZMum · 19/01/2007 19:29

have to add I would not encourge kids to join IT industry though .... it is moving to low cost resource countries... and this will get worse over the years

Drusilla · 19/01/2007 19:32

I used to work in IT until having DS. Agree with Strangetown that being in a minority can sometimes be an advantage. In my last place (big pharmaceutical co) I was the only woman in IT for our region (IIRC). But we are lucky in that we can afford for me to not work for a few years and I really can't be doing with the hours or the commute, after having DS.

morningpaper · 19/01/2007 19:42

That's interesting paddington

I have found that IT skills are very much in demand and have had no problems working part-time (self-emplyed).

I do websites but also some consultancy and hardware support. I am currently in the middle of a contract installing a small network for a local charity (10 users).

morningpaper · 19/01/2007 19:43

I've also never been bullied, or suffered at all from harassment at all.

morningpaper · 19/01/2007 19:45

I'm sure there will be certain areas where jobs can be shipped abroad but basically IT support and installation will always be needed

ZZMum · 19/01/2007 19:53

support and installation is easily outsourced.. I know as I sort it out! There will be jobs in IT in this country but not on the scale there is now as DBA type work is easily done remotely ...

USAUKMum · 19/01/2007 19:56

well paddington DH's company is near Cambridge if that is anywhere near you :-)

arfishy · 19/01/2007 20:06

I'm in IT & Telecomms and I've had more problems being a contractor than I have with being a woman.

I don't think I would be able to work in the city any more, or do on-call work. I definitely wouldn't work for a bank.

I find that contracting is giving me a lot of flexibilty (although not security).

My contracts took me all over the world (nearly all of the people I worked with in Thailand were women) but Australia is absolutely perfect. They pretty much let me do whatever I like as long as I deliver my work - I can drop DD off to nursery, work from home, leave at 4pm. They really respect the work/life balance and have no problem at all if my DD is sick or if I need to do something family related.

arfishy · 19/01/2007 20:08

Seeing the other posts - my job is fairly specialised within IT - it's IT in Telecomms & 3G, so if it is outsourced, it's to me.

morningpaper · 19/01/2007 20:32

Yes I don't see how you can outsource hardware problems

Most software can be resolved remotely now but hardware is always going to have to be on-site by definition

WideWebWitch · 20/01/2007 09:29

Arfy, that sounds great. Some of these posts are shocking, it's so shite that this goes on in 200andbloody7 isn't it?

I saw some awful sexism where I work, a female ERP Project Manager had a number 2 person (male) who worked on a much smaller part of the project and so accompanied her to some meetings. Most people assumed HE was the PM and addressed their questions and issues to him. It was shite.

Another woman at my company recently bought a colleague a leaving card which showed a meeting and the chair saying to a woman: "that's a marvellous suggestion Mrs Smith, I wonder if one of the men would like to make it?"
Funny but sadly also true.

Original poster
paddingtonbear1 · 22/01/2007 12:22

have just got back after a weekend in Bristol. Thanks guys for your replies! I am an Oracle software developer. There used to be great demand for these but not so much in the last few years. If contracting was as it used to be I'd probably do that and have breaks in between (this is what my friends used to do), but it's too risky these days!
USAUKMum I'm in Cheshire, so nowhere near Cambridge!

OP posts:
CookieMonster · 22/01/2007 12:39

Hi Paddington, interesting to hear you're in Oracle ... I'm an Oracle DBA currently working for IBM and am finding that my skills are in great demand. Although a lot of our run of the mill maintenance work is being shipped out to IBM in India, our customers want to keep the more challenging stuff (new projects, upgrades to new versions of software etc) in the UK as they feel we have more experience.

I am the main breadwinner in our house and dh does the school run etc etc so that I can be on call or do scheduled work at 3am or whatever. I am the only woman in my team of 6, but work remotely from home and I have absolutely no problems with sexism or bullying. I can start at whatever time I like and finish at pretty much whatever time I like as long as I do my 37 hours a week and am available by phone.

All in all, and reading some of the other posts here, I think I'm pretty lucky!