Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

My employer is withholding my sick pay due to"self inflicted sickness"

81 replies

Newtothis95 · 25/04/2016 22:24

I have been working for my company for over 3 years and within the last 5/6 months I've been stressed out due to university,work single mother of a two year old it's hard work! But I'm a quiet and strong person so I don't open up much. However 2 weeks ago I seemed advice from a friend at work who is of a higher position then me and asked how do I get sick leave from work as I'm stressed with my son and uni and work balancing it all, she advised to go to the doctor but doubted I'd get paid as our employers are strict so I took her advice saw my doctor and explained my feelings he then signed me off a sup form for 4 weeks due to stress. I gave this to a manager and she said it get paid and she'll see me when I'm back. Now today I received a call from my deputy manager explaining the my sick pay has been with eld bearing in mind today is Monday my payday is Friday and I have been off work 2weeks+. He then phoned back and said my pay has been withheld due to my employ me to hand book stating there aloud to do this ifor my sickness is "self inflicted" I asked how this was he said prior to your conversation with another member of staff mentioning about says you have during this time this is your fault I argued my point which was this is one of my stressed work and my son and my housing are the othersame of many. The phone call was rounded up by him repeating he is just telling me that my pay has been withheld and that I can have a follow up when I'm back may 13th. I need my pay this Friday I have bills,rent and childcare to pay for etc. Surely this can't be legal or right? Any help????

OP posts:
Stillunexpected · 25/04/2016 23:53

Your company aren't saying you're unfit to work- what they are saying is that they aren't going to pay you for that time! Unfortunately their horrible sickness policy allows them to do that! If you want to fight this, then you need to ask them (in writing) on what basis they think your illness is self-inflicted and to clarify what, if anything, you will be paid for this time.

Stillunexpected · 25/04/2016 23:54

not unfit - fit

Original poster
Newtothis95 · 25/04/2016 23:55

@stillunexpected yes it's possible but now is this another procedure to go through for this pay

OP posts:
Stillunexpected · 25/04/2016 23:58

OP, you still don't seem to understand what the meaning of discretionary is? So yes, if they are saying that won't pay you above SSP and you want to fight for that money, then you will have to pursue it with them. And frankly, based on what you have said so far, I think it's by no means guaranteed that you will get the company sick pay. As others have said they can't withhold SSP which is not that much below what you normally earn anyway.

Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:01

Does this help

My employer is withholding my sick pay due to"self inflicted sickness"
OP posts:
MairyHoles · 26/04/2016 00:03

No they can't just change your contractual terms so should pay you in line with your contract, you can point this out to them, but their position might be that you are not actually ill and are fabricating stress to take advantage of the full sick pay which you had previously discussed with your colleague.

Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:03

??

My employer is withholding my sick pay due to"self inflicted sickness"
OP posts:
MairyHoles · 26/04/2016 00:04

No they can't just change your contractual terms so should pay you in line with your contract, you can point this out to them, but their position might be that you are not actually ill and are fabricating stress to take advantage of the full sick pay which you had previously discussed with your colleague.

lorelei9here · 26/04/2016 00:06

OP I don't know about other people but I can't see the copies of your contract
Not helped by the fact that you are posting them sideways and my iPhone keeps turning them back that way!

In the nicest possible way, before you talk to your employer, you must get your facts straight and your communication clear. You took several posts to tell us that you have deferred your essays and that's really important. Previous posts made it look like you were taking time off to do the essays.

I still don't understand if you want SSP or full pay either. Your posts are very confusing.

Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:06

@stillunexpected @maryHoles I understand but they haven't stated what pay is being witheld so when Friday comes and they haven't payed me ssp then what would be my move from there

OP posts:
MairyHoles · 26/04/2016 00:07

Sorry my phone is useless. I thought that last page never referred to it being discretionary, I see others have given advice in the time it took me to post. I swear dial up was quicker than my current patchy wifi reception!

Stillunexpected · 26/04/2016 00:07

I can barely read the first of those pages and the second not at all but it does seem that you will be paid SSP but not, as they have already you, the additional company sick pay on top of that.

Stillunexpected · 26/04/2016 00:09

when Friday comes and they haven't payed me ssp then what would be my move from there - don't wait until Friday! Email tomorrow and ask for clarification on what you will be paid. On the basis of what you have posted here you will get SSP, the person who spoke to you probably wasn't very clear or expected you to know that they were referring to the discretionary element of your pay.

Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:10

@lorelei9here a friend of mine told me to do this to seek help I'm sorry I have confused you my literature is very poor I'm only 20 years old I was just trying to seek the best advice but I don't think I helped myself thank you anyway

OP posts:
Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:13

@stillunexpected okay so I should email just because a friend of mine told me to not communicate with them unless they do me because I'm off sicknow and when I had a telephone conversation earlier i asked to come in for a meeting as I didn't accept not being payed and my manager said that would contradict you because your sick so I thought the same rule applya with emailing

OP posts:
MairyHoles · 26/04/2016 00:15

Well if it is discretionary they have used their discretion and aren't paying you full pay. You should still get SSP (if you meet the criteria) which isn't paid for the first 3 days. From the first pic you posted it doesn't appear to be discretionary (that's the only page I can read) so you should point out what your contract says. However, if they believe you are faking illness to get full sick pay then it may be a disciplinary matter, so it may not be wise to push for full pay. Once you don't receive the pay you could ask on what basis it has been withheld, but until then I don't think they have technically done anything wrong (since they haven't withheld it yet).

MairyHoles · 26/04/2016 00:15

Well if it is discretionary they have used their discretion and aren't paying you full pay. You should still get SSP (if you meet the criteria) which isn't paid for the first 3 days. From the first pic you posted it doesn't appear to be discretionary (that's the only page I can read) so you should point out what your contract says. However, if they believe you are faking illness to get full sick pay then it may be a disciplinary matter, so it may not be wise to push for full pay. Once you don't receive the pay you could ask on what basis it has been withheld, but until then I don't think they have technically done anything wrong (since they haven't withheld it yet).

Drquin · 26/04/2016 00:15

First things first, you're not going to solve this at midnight with us.

Here's the link to SSP from the gov.uk website. www.gov.uk/statutory-sick-pay/overview
With remarkably few exceptions, it is payable to most employees. So, assuming you comply with these requirements, you qualify for SSP.
So, read it & confirm you do qualify. Then in the morning, ask work to confirm they will be paying this when due.

The great debate then comes on the "discretionary" part. I'm sorry I can't read all your photos either, so you need to confirm exactly how you think you qualify for it - and whether your circumstances match. Check the process for appealing their decision (if there is one).
You will want to be very clear on this, if you're looking to challenge a genuinely discretionary arrangement.

Stillunexpected · 26/04/2016 00:17

Well it was acceptable for them to phone you and have a conversation so unless they expect you to be completely horizontal every minute I can't see that an email is going to be a problem. However, if you don't want to do that you can wait and see what you get paid on Friday.

lorelei9here · 26/04/2016 00:19

OP no need to apologise, just wanted to explain why I was asking so many questions
Also very important for you to be careful in communications with your employer, I just wanted to emphasise that.

1stsignofspring2016 · 26/04/2016 00:20

I would make efforts to complete your uni work on time otherwise you may have to do an extra year

From previous posts that I have seen from doctors in the past
Doctors do not sign everyone off for stress, so they must have had a very valid reason to sign you off with a doctors note

I assume stress can cover a plethora of symptoms from not sleeping. tiredness and worse etc

I think your employer is assuming too much !

Example
If an employee went on a skiing holiday and broke their leg would they say this was self inflicted and stop pay ?

I would ask your HR about loss of pay

Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:20

Okay I will, email them tomorrow thank you for your help, before asking in here my family and friends were telling me to take them to the employment tribunal and all sorts due to them now stressing me even more 4 days before payday telling me I'm not going to be paid
Thand you for your help x

OP posts:
Original poster
Newtothis95 · 26/04/2016 00:23

@1stsignofspring that is very true would,they? They are assuming too much my doctor saw how stressed I was and how flared up my eczema was and how upset I was because of stress so they need to know what that covers first

OP posts:
PointlessFriend · 26/04/2016 00:29

OP, have you spoken to anyone at Uni? If you don't complete the year isn't that going yo have a massive effect on things? Will you have to repeat the year or can you just hand in your essays late and take your exams during the resit period?

lorelei9here · 26/04/2016 00:31

RE the skiing and broken leg example, if they are operating a discretionary sick pay policy, then yes, they would deny sick pay.

Op as I say I can't see the contracts you attached but whether or not it is discretionary sick pay is key.