Being forced to relocate - so must resign

[HopefulHamster]

This will out me if you know me - so please don't say if you recognise the situation! Very long, sorry.

I work for a company with two offices, due to one company buying another a few years back. I live and work in Herts and we have an office in London that over time has become 'head office' (though when I joined we only had the Herts office).

I have been there for ten years, full time for five and part-time after two mat leaves for the last five.

Before my most recent mat leave, my boss was in the same office as me. He left just before I went on mat leave. Then on my return, my new boss was in the London office but supportive of me working in Herts. The only other person in our department is in the same office as me.

Last week my boss was made redundant. Colleague and I were told we must now move to London in four weeks, when a new boss (with slightly different title) starts. Our London office is currently in north London but is moving to south London in June. They will cover travel expenses until December when it will be 'reviewed'.

I have two children, and I am the person responsible for doing all childcare drop-offs and pickups. DH can't manage it with his job and I have partly stayed in my role over the years because I knew it meant I could manage the kids.

Logistically, I cannot do south London. I would have to reduce my hours so much they wouldn't cover childcare and also I would be too far away in case of illness. I have told work I'll have to resign. They're all 'what a shame' but in reality not bothered.

My work is all done online, so there is no desperate need to be in the same office as boss. We work as much with the teams in Herts as the teams in London. I can understand boss wanting team near her, but not at the expense of losing the team, if you see what I mean.

Everyone is telling me I 'should' go for constructive dismissal. I don't like confrontation and feel stressed at the thought, but on the other hand I appear to be given no choice but to leave.

Thinking 1) be nice to get a good reference and maybe some freelance or 2) go for constructive dismissal after I've left if no work is coming through.

But I don't know much about constructive dismissal. Is there a good guide anywhere? Should I ask them to put in writing that I must resign if I won't go to London? Is it just a hassle with little likelihood of a good outcome? Better to move on with head held high? I don't really have the money for legal help.

Why doesn't journey to and from station count Tigger? It can make quite the difference!

If it's just an hour from home then I don't think it would be grounds for redundancy

Also bear in mind that your childcare arrangements are irrelevant to the employer

You need to check your contract (if you have one) to see if there is a mobility clause (a clause permitting your usual place of work to be reasonably relocated - there will usually be a geographical scope attached to that).

You will still be "dismissed" by reason of redundancy if your workplace relocates and you are unable to relocate (whether you resign or are dismissed). If there isn't a mobility clause then it doesn't matter if the commute is "only" and hour away - changing your workplace is a fundamental breach of contract that gives you the right to resign in response if they refuse to pay your redundancy pay.

Conversely, if there is a reasonable mobility clause which compels you to move to the London branch, then you will be in fundamental breach of contract by refusing to move and will therefore lose all contractual and redundancy entitlements.

It's not only an hour away, that's purely the train and that's longer than an hour anyway.

But I see the point, sigh.

Please remember I am just someone trying to get to terms with having to leave my job after ten years.

Impact on children is not necessarily irrelevant btw, see above. It might be for me I know!

"However, it may be reasonable to say no if it involves a difficult journey or affects personal matters like children’s education."

That's from the government site I linked to up thread. I'd say that the op's childcare situation does count in this specific instance.

Impact on childcare arrangements can be relevant in some circumstances (such as whether an alternative job offer is suitable). You could also argue that a mobility clause, and resulting workplace relocation, is indirectly discriminatory on the grounds of sex, as you are more likely to be disadvantaged by such a provision because women are statistically more likely to have childcare responsibilities.

I am not an expert in this but it isn't constructive dismissal in my view.

What I would be careful of is 'accepting' the new travel pattern until December. If they can persuade you to do that it may well be that you would not be eligible for redundancy having established a new pattern of travel and working .

You need to get a union or ACAS or CAB person to give you basic advice on your rights. I also like others think this is a redundancy issue and I think you need to state now that the new travel arrangement will be impossible for you and that you are prepared to work from home or say home plus one day a week in the office, etc. Look flexible, offer alternatives, but say that if there is no flexibility that you will find it impossible to work and that you would need to be made redundant.

Before you write anything though, you do need some basic legal advice though because for sure they wil have had legal advice and be working out how to avoid paying redundancy. Don't just resign.

If it's more than 30 miles they have to offer relocation

Thanks all. If I doing grumpy it is due to lack of sleep. I appreciate the range of advice.

*sound

That was autocorrect!

HH, please read your contract and then post again. I can't help definitively until I know if there's a mobility clause (I'm an employment lawyer).

Check your mobility clause (if any) and have a word with ACAS, as it may be that you could argue indirect sex discrimination and use that to negotiate redundancy terms. Don't agree to resign just yet. Good luck.

This link to the Govt website explains your rights in a relocation situation.

If you have a mobility clause in your contract you may not be able to apply for redundancy but the mobility clause has to be reasonable.

Its suggest ACAS as a useful place to contact. Also TUPE applies here and that is extremely complex. As say they will have taken legal advice and their lawyers will be advising how to avoid redundancy pay.

TUPE only applies on sale or transfer of a business - not to internal relocations.

Mummy - apologies I thought I had read the business had been taken over. As you say TUPE only applies if the business was taken over.

Hopeful - the other thing to watch out for here is the 'stepping stone' approach thy are using of first getting you to work in North London establishes a new pattern of work and means the eventual move to South London will then technically not be as large in distance and again may affect your right to redundancy.

Sounds like a potential redundancy situation to me. Redundancy should be for one of the following reasons:

Employer has ceased (or intends to cease) carrying on the business for the purposes of which they employ someone.
Employer has ceased (or intends to cease) to carry on the business in the location they employ someone.
Employer doesn't require employees to carry out work of a particular kind any more.
Employer doesn't require employees to carry out work of a particular kind in a specific location any more.

If they don't require you and your colleague to carry out the roles in the same location that's redundancy. The question is whether the new location is a 'suitable alternative' or not. Personally, with experience of working in London, I'd say Hertfordshire to South London is quite possibly not a suitable alternative.

When deciding whether something is a suitable alternative, an employer must have due regard to personal circumstances and things like impact on commute and family responsibilities are included in that.

Ah...I can't see this being grounds for redundancy either, just about to do my commute which is similar! Okay that doesn't matter...but seriously I guess in this day and age it would need to be a couple pf hours one way before it would count and your childcare has nothing to do with them.

As I said before constructive dismissal won't apply, it's not like they moved to get rid of you. You either have to resign or make a case for working in Herts or at home.

Just saw flowery post..I hope she is right because that's a much better scenario than I thought. It's North to South London though isn't it, not Herts to South London, the office move?

Thank you flowery, that is helpful.

I currently work in Hertfordshire (being vague on purpose, not sure if that is annoying!). Our London office is about to move. It is in Islington now, will be in Southwarkish in June.

I asked them for a copy of my last signed contract, have just got into work and it was in my drawer. They only had one from 2009. I was given a new one when I came back from maternity leave but I never got around to signing it - does that affect things?

Anyway the copy of my contract HR is from before we had two offices, so it says:

"Your normal place of work is XXX SGXX XXX"

"In order to properly perform your duties as an employee and respond to operational needs, you may be required to work at other than your normal place of work. It is a condition of your employment that you agree to work at any location within the United Kingdom. Wherever possible you will be given reasonable notice of the necessity to travel. In some instances, however, the need to instantly respond to a situation will make reasonable notice impossible."

That's it - the above I believe was largely to make people go to trade shows etc.

I'm sure the new contract has completely different wording but I can't find my copies of it.

There isn't a specific mobility clause in this contract.

Flowery has the situation correctly summed up.

That mobility clause is too wide for them to rely on.

This is a redundancy situation (technically all relocations are) and the role they are offering is not a suitable alternative due to your personal circumstances, which do count. So, no, you would not be in breach of contract to turn it down.

I can't think of any law by the way that says an employer has to pay costs for relocation over thirty miles, which someone up thread claimed. Some employers do have this as policy but it's not law as far as I know.

But even so, it's not just the money for the Op, it's the timings.

You don't "apply" for redundancy either, redundancy is a matter of law, based on the facts. Just tell the employer you believe it's a redundancy situation and are taking further advice.

Will it matter that I have been given a newer contract that I didn't sign and they don't have on file?

I know the new commute isn't the longest in the world, but I selected and stayed in this job because it worked for my family's needs. I wonder consider working in many places in Hertfordshire, maybe even Bedfordshire and in Fins Park/King's Cross/similar, but I would never even apply for a job south of London, not with the kids to consider. If I was single, sure. I used to live in Walthamstow and work in Surrey shortly after graduating, but back then it didn't matter I was out of the home 7-7!

If they issued you a new contract, you didn't technically sign it but didn't raise concerns with it and carried on working, then you would be deemed to have accepted it and the terms they issued you in that contract will apply.

However, if HR have no record of you being issued a new contract, you don't have a copy and they don't have a copy, it's going to be hard to ascertain what that contract said. I suppose it would be easier if there is a standard contract that all employees were issued after a certain date. You might need to find that out.

Thanks both. I think it is as Flowery says, and it will/does have a office relocation/mobility clause I'm sure. I need to find someone who can let me see their clause.

Am hoping redundancy will apply regardless, but it's hard to know without it.