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Please talk to me about changing careers to law

38 replies

HairyPorter · 17/02/2016 16:46

I'm thinking of changing careers and have always been interested in law. However I know nothing about it. I have a medical background but don't like the way things have been going in the NHS which is why I am consider leaving. I am actually most interested in medical negligence as that would just be the most straightforward option, and I think I would do a decent job of it... Anyone have any advice on this? How easy/difficult would it be to get a job? And what are salaries likely to be? Would a law conversion course suffice? Please help...

OP posts:
kirinm · 19/02/2016 10:01

I honestly think you'd easily find a job in an insurance litigation firm's clinical negligence department as in my experience they have recruited nurses and other health care professionals. I also think your life / work balance would be much better in an insurance lit firm than a corporate. Target hours and generally about 7.5 billable so you aren't talking all nighters.

Are you based in London? If so you'd probably get £25k as a paralegal and could do your GDL and LPC part time.

You could also try ILEX if you'd rather which is significantly cheaper but would take a long time.

redhat · 19/02/2016 10:05

What do you earn at the moment OP?

In all likelihood you are facing a good few years of lower salary (potentially significantly lower) at a time when your children are still young. I personally wouldn't start out again at law school/trainee level with young children. If you start law school in September your youngest is still going to be very little (6 ish) when you start your training. Do you really want to miss out on those two years - training contracts involve very long hours and generally quite boring work (particularly if you're currently a doctor). Then for about 5-6 years after that you're going to have to slog your guts out as a junior lawyer working all the hours god sends. By the time you can potentially earn decent money your youngest will be at senior school.

kirinm · 19/02/2016 10:14

Red hat - I really don't think that'll be the case in insurance lit although there would obviously be other seats that might be more demanding.

Pigeonpost · 19/02/2016 10:18

Since the Jackson reforms, and even beforehand, the firms which do clin neg and PI are so squeezed in costs that they tend to run the model of teams of low paid unqualified paralegals with a case management system being supervised by a qualified solicitor. And those unqualified paralegals are usually people who are looking for training contracts but can't find them. There are solicitor jobs in that field but it's a dying market and I wouldn't recommend investing in a big career change to try and get into it. The firm which took over Pannone is exceptionally keen on the high volume turnover of cases using teams of paralegals and the state of the market these days does mean that clin neg, even more so than PI, is becoming more and more limited to the few big player firms who operate to this model.

redhat · 19/02/2016 10:23

I think it entirely depends on what they have on at any particular time. I was head of employment in the regional office of a large national and my department was right next to the insurance team. The trainees there worked very hard and frequently stayed late. No they weren't often pulling all nighters (but will have worked until very late sometimes and certainly will have in other seats such as corporate). In insurance the margins are very tight and so work is pushed down to the lowest possible level. They also generally found it very dull and formulaic but that's a different issue altogether.

It's a lifestyle decision ultimately. If the OP is a doctor she needs to think back to what it was like training as a doctor and prepare for a similar kind of lifestyle again. Whether she wants to do that with small children is a questions she needs to ask herself. There is no way I would be a trainee solicitor with small children, particularly if her DH also has a demanding job and can't necessarily always cover childcare, but we all have different priorities.

kirinm · 19/02/2016 10:24

Actually that's a good point and with the potential fixed fees for cases up to £250k you'll need to work in one of the catastrophic departments which I guess are some of the only departments that will survive.

There's no doubt it is not a highly paid area.

TheOptimisticPessimist · 19/02/2016 10:40

I'm in the middle of my LPC at the moment. My undergrad is in a biomedical science (think genetics/biochem sort of area) then I worked for a couple of years in software before deciding to start my GDL.

It's tough. Very tough. The market for new lawyers is not a pleasant one and a considerable number of people from my GDL realised that and decided not to do the LPC until they'd secured a contract.

Ideally you'd get a TC before starting but more and more people are now self funding the GDL because they just want to get started on the path and TCs are so hard to come by. A lot of it depends on where you are and the firms you're willing to apply to. If you're in London there's no shortage, but I'm in the NE and choice is exceptionally limited if you want to work in a well recognised firm that will lead to decent enough pay. There's a handful of firms and they only have up to maybe 10 spots a year each. Some have less than that. There are plenty of smaller high street firms too but a lot of them only have one or two training spots and hire straight from the LPC so you'd need to self fund in that instance.

Although experience if you're converting isn't the be all and end all, I'd advise getting some anyway for your own piece of mind. I've been a paralegal for two and a bit years in a big firm, and I'm doing it alongside the full time course. It's helped a lot because at least I know what I'm getting myself into and what area of law I actually want to qualify into. There's a lot of people who have some basic court experience or a week here and there but in reality they have no idea how what we're learning will apply in the workplace, how hard the slog can be, and sometimes how monotonous it can be at the start. It's a scary concept! Some of them have become pretty disillusioned when they've come back from longer work experience or vacation schemes.

Firms run vacation schemes for TC candidates which are a great way to gain experience, insight into the firm, and sell yourself to the recruiters, but it isn't easy to get places on them as the selection process is the same as for TCs. If you know anyone in law that could help you get some additional experience it's definitely worth it.

It isn't all doom and gloom though! I genuinely find my job fascinating (I do commercial work) and enjoy it. Yes it can be a bit dull but there's always something interesting around the corner. You have to be willing to throw yourself into it if you want to progress though. The partner that heads up my team made partner in about 10 years which is insanely fast, but he lives and breathes work and rarely leaves the office before 7pm, then will still occasionally be sending emails at 11pm!

I agree that converting from a medical setting works to your advantage. You've been in a workplace, before which many of the fresh-out-of-law-degree candidates haven't, and you have genuine experience in the area which is worth it's weight in gold to be honest. More and more trainees seem to be people that have converted either from a non-law subject degree, or from a previous career, because firms recognise that the diversity is beneficial.

You should look into the CiLex route too - you can't become a solicitor without a law degree/GDL and LPC, but you could become a Chartered Legal Executive. They are still lawyers, the pay grade depends on the firm, but training and education is cheaper overall I think and it's not as competitive. It would also be something that's easier to fit around part time work. Rather than a TC you can apply to be a paralegal and gain experience to boost your portfolio that way instead. Its certainly worth taking a look at.

Whatever you decide, good luck!!

HairyPorter · 19/02/2016 13:15

With the new contract, after 3 years pay protection, I will probably get just over 60k if I work full time (I dont, so get a lot less than that) and no pay rise after that till I get onto the consultant payscale. (60k may seem like a good pay but our working conditions are really pretty shit). This will be a pay cut compared to the current contract. I am one of those junior doctors that are the bane of nhsemployers- I have spent a lot of time in the training programme (PhD and time spent in the job that doesn't count towards my training) and have resisted being fast tracked through training as seems to be the intent of the DOH. Perhaps this is all reactionary but I have thought of leaving at several times in my career and have always been talked out of it. I think if I don't leave now then I will soon get too old to leave. The NHS consultant contract is being altered too and its all getting me down a bit. At my hospital the consultants are resident on call and have replaced one junior doctor at night. This is going to be the norm by the time I get to be a consultant. I don't really want to spend the next 30 years doing nights in the hospital and essentially doing the same job I have done for the past 10 years! I am starting to see there is no light at the end of the tunnel. Realistically my options are to retrain in a different career, or stick with my training and leave once I get my certification of training...

OP posts:
redhat · 19/02/2016 13:25

Will you still want to be working part time if you switch to law. Because realistically that just isn't going to happen. Part time training contracts are like hens teeth.

JizzyStradlin · 19/02/2016 13:59

If you're not keen on the NHS working conditions, understandably, I don't think you'll like most of what's on offer in law either. And you'll have to be quite fortunate to earn consultant wages. I never will, though my legal career provides me with other things that are more of a priority for me.

Not saying don't do it, but don't do it expecting good money or work life balance. You'd have to really want it. I'd check out being a patent attorney, in your shoes.

DeoGratias · 19/02/2016 18:35

Our family are mostly lawyers (commercial lawyers in London ) and doctors (NHS consultants). I think law is better - I am a lawyer. My brother who is a doctor would probably say he prefers medicine so I doubt I can give you an unbiased view. I don't think you need to commit to an area of law just yet but should look to see if you can find a commercial firm to pay you for the GDL and LPC fees and they pay a subsistance allowance too which is enough for students (harder to live on that if you are older with children) for those 2 years of study. Some people do the courses part time over 4 not 2 years.

If you work for the right law firm and work hard you will earn at least in London more than £60k (although plenty of consultants with a London private practice as well as NHS work earn many multiples of £60k anyway).

JizzyStradlin · 19/02/2016 20:29

I seem to recall you got out of City law firms before the hours became completely ridiculous though Deo, and it's a different kettle of fish when you're working from home and the master of your own time.

Pigeonpost · 24/02/2016 16:23

I earned quite a bit more than £60k at senior (not partner) level in a regional firm doing PI. But like I said, the PI and clin neg market just isn't what it was and fixed fees are pushing firms so heavily to the paralegal team model. Obviously some lawyers might get through but those are going to be the ones prepared to put the hours in and get a name for themselves. Very difficult when working part-time. After I had my DC I spent about 5 years thinking oh I'll just work p/t and ignore my f/t peers climbing the ranks around me because I'm on a great salary and I couldn't earn the same working p/t (or even f/t) in another job. But it ground me down in the end and I quit at 15 years PQE. SO many of my contemporaries have done the same, mainly in PI and clin neg. It's not really about law and justice for the injured, it's about case "velocity" ie turning them round as quick as poss as cheaply as possible. I'm really quite bitter about it all, prob the same as you are with all the shite junior doctors are having to endure. Luckily I was able to give it all up without impacting the family but I had reached the point I had lost all pride in my job and just wanted out and away from the money making robots. I partly wish I had gone into something like employment or family law instead as I think there is more longevity in those fields. I was never going to be a corporate lawyer anyway.

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