Thinking of moving to Devon and setting up a POTTERY CAFE - anyone know about this kind of thing ?

[scatterbrain]

Well - started off with being a beauty salon but during the day has morphed into being a pottery cafe !

Short version - am loking for lifestyle change - fed up with rat race - have seen house in Devon village with ground floor business premises which would seem ideal for a pottery cafe business. I might also do educational toys as a sideline !

So - just wondering if anyone here has a pottery cafe and could give me any advice ?

Thanks In Advance !

I have a friend who started up her own. Still going strong 3.5 years on. What do you want to know in particular?

I also have an acquaintance whose parents run a similar business. What sort of set up are you looking at?

Oh that's great PSH - I was curious to know if they were sustainable really - or were they one of those here today gone tomorrow things !

Presumably your friend must be making a profit then ?

What I was really wondering I guess is simply whether this kind of business works ?

The set up would be that we would buy this house I have seen, the ground floor is already a business premises - and seems very suitable for a pottery cafe with a bit of decorating and putting a downstairs loo in for the customers.

We would live literally above the shop !

I don't know anything about buisness rates etc.

There would be the main studio, and a party room, and an office, and a kiln and storage room. The main studio has glass frontage, so I envisage lots of colourful displays of painted pottery, maybe I could even sell ready done stuff ?

Would be great to hear about success stories !

I don't need to make a million - just enough to pay dd's school fees - maybe £7000 pa, plus anything extra would be great for holidays etc. DH would continue with his job and so would cover mortgage, bills etc.

this is our local one. Always heaving. Must make a BOMB.

I'm assuming that you're fairly artistic? It is very hands-on of course. And you will need some hired help or a partner as it is at least a 2man operation. My friend has a partner but you can't really be faffing about with the kiln etc whilst also presenting a party tea/dealing with walk-ins etc. As you're not having to cover the cost of your premises then you would be at an advantage. But I guess you'll have to invest in a larger kiln than you may have at present. The main demand is for parties and for personalised gifts eg stuff like baby handprints which you then "finish professionally".

Only think that sticks out is that you mentio a Devon village - how much market is there for this sort of thing?

I am from Devon and still have a lot of family down there. There are t=a lot of people on benefits or minimum wage so won't be able to afford these sort of luxuries. You will need to make sure you start it up in the right area....

Ditto the 'village'.

Sounds ideal for somewhere like Totnes.

I'd pop in when we're next down there!

Tbh it sounds to me as if your plan has two parts to it. You want a change of lifestyle, because your commute is currently getting to you and you want to move somewhere where you won?t be rushing around all the time and won?t have to commute for x hours a day, so you want to move to devon to get that change of lifestyle. But to do that you also need to do something to bring in an income, and as you?ve seen a house with business premises, you feel that setting up your own business would be the way to go.

I can absolutely see why you would want a change of lifestyle. However, are there not easier ways of doing it than selling up and moving to another town where both you and your dh would have to change jobs, your dd would have to change schools and you wouldn?t even have any guarantees that a business venture would succeed? If you want to set up your own business can you not do it in the town you?re currently living in? the house that you?re currently looking at s already on the market, I?m assuming yours isn?t? so there are no guarantees that you?ll even get that house, it could take you 6 months to sell yours by which time that one might be gone and you?ll end up having to rent business premises anyway. And what about your dh? I?m assuming he is working as well? So are you expecting him to quit his job and to find another one in Devon? How can you be sure he?ll be able to find the kind of work in Devon that he does in your current town?

I think you are potentially putting a lot at steak for something that will not give you any kind of income for a considerable amount of time.

If you want to move to Devon, and you want to be self employed, then rather than looking to start up a business from scratch, I would look to buy an already established business that you could take over. That way the hard work has already been done iykwim. If you really want to start your own business, then I would look to start one in the place you already live in. That way your dh will still retain his job, your dd won?t be uprooted just yet, and if it doesn?t work out, you can give it up and find another job in a place where you already know how easy/difficult it is to find employment.

I really don?t want to rain on your parade, but it seems to me that you?re planning to uproot your whole family for what is essentially a dream, and while the prospect of owning your own company is very exciting, believe me I?ve considered it myself on many occasions, it is exceptionally hard work, there are no financial benefits for a considerable amount of time, and there are absolutely no guarantees that it will even succeed. If you think commuting is stressful, then quadruple the stress and you will come close to what it?s like running your own business. And when it?s your own business you can?t leave it behind when you go home, because it?s yours and you take all the flack for the things that go wrong, especially when the business is in the same place as your house, you really will never escape from it.

Think very carefully about what you want to do, discuss it with your dh and see what he says as well, because you?re in this together, he has to be 100% happy with the idea as well.

Thanks for that link charliecat - funnily enough that pic of the outside is exactly like the shop front of the house I'm looking at - and that's almost exactly how I'd pictured it - so that is good I think !

Location wise - it is a very rural community - and most people drive everywhere - so I imagine they would not be opposed to a special trip to bring their child in to paint a pot ? I know I drive my dd about 12 miles to the one we go to, and although we don't go more than twice a year - we would not expect that sort of thing on our doorstep as it were.

The town/village has quite a few shops, two bakeries, three pubs, couple of tea shops, greengrocers, butchers, post office, bank etc - so people will be used to coming "into town". It's not a metropolis true - but is a busy little place - and there is a village primary school, brownies etc and at least 4 more local schools with 5 or so miles - so there must be captive children !!

It's interesting that people keep saying that most people in Devon are poor - I just don't see this - the area we are looking in is quite affluent - lots of big houses, kids in private school etc - lots of horsey types, nice cars.

I guess the time you would do really well with this sort of thing would be in summer if you are near a seaside resort- every time there was a wet day all the families would be looking for something like this to do. I would have thought you'd have to have a more steady base of customers though, for it to be workable. wannabe is talking a lot of sense...

wannabe - I think you are trying to rain on my parade - not sure why - but that's how it feels for sure. I am not some silly idiot with pipe dreams - this is for real !

I've already said that dh will continue with his current well paid job - he works for a big IT company and is home based so he can live wherever he wants. His salary more than covers mortgage etc.

The MAIN reason for wanting to move as I said on the other thread is to be nearer dh's family so that dd can see them more often and so that we can have a bit more support. We have none right now.

DH and DD want to move to Devon, in fact they are desperate to - it is me and my job that is holding us back. This just might be the way we can achieve our dream.

It's mid-Devon - not near the seaside - about an hour away.

Where my family live in mid Devon, there are a lot of people on low salaries. Not really sure quite where you mean but there are some villages around that are a bit posher and more affluent for sure. But it is quite common for people to be on minimum wage...

But as you say there are richer people - are they the ones with small children though? Is it South Molton????

No that?s not what I?m trying to do at all, I?m being a realist, setting up your own business is bloody hard work, and if you think otherwise then you are deluding yourself. It will cost you money to initially set up your own business, you won?t make money for at least a year and unless you have money to hand you will have to go into debt to do it.

I can absolutely understand why you would want to move, my dh commutes and we are also looking to move so that he can be closer to his job. But I think you need to give the business idea a lot more serious thought before you go ahead and buy a house with business premises, because tbh it sounds as if you don?t know what you want to do. Yesterday it was a beauty salon, today it?s a pottery café. If you can afford not to work, why not move anyway and decide what it is you want to do once you?re there? Suss out the local area and think about what kind of thing the market needs iyswim. Then either spend time doing some studying for whatever it is you want to do, or get a paid job to save enough money for starting costs.

I don?t think moving is a bad idea, I think moving is a very good idea, but I do think that moving and starting a business you know nothing about is a bad idea.

Knowing mid Devon people I would say a cafe would be a better bet. Somewhere that does nice coffee and tea with homemade cakes etc...

There are 2 places in MK - one opened a few months ago this one

but we do have a population of 218,000 (approx 20% of which are children between 0 - 14) - I wonder if a rural area would have sufficient numbers of children to make the pottery part a viable business.

My dses went to a party at one in the summer and TBH it's not the sort of thing they would want to do again for a long time.

But we go to cafes a lot

I do like the sound of a nice tea shop

I think that the best thing to do is to draw up a business plan and present it to a banker.

I can only speak for myself in that the endless rainy Autumn/Winter/Spring months standing in a shop (with my three poor bored kids if they were on the customary 5million weeks off that Private education lends them)made me want to top myself. I hate feeling totally and utterly tied. You might like it.

If you only need £7k (more realisticly £10k and rising once you are out of infants) then subletting or getting a termtime part time job would have the same result.

If you just want to be self employed and see something really grow then it should preferably be something that you are utterly passionate about not something that you thought of this morning.

I do wish you the very best and will gladly bring my tribe down to make pots with you, I just hate to see anyone launch themselves into what essentially could be seen as prison.

census info here for population research

There is one in Totnes called China Blue that we have been to whilst we were on holiday and had a lovely time. It's pretty big, has a cafe and a shop selling all sorts of things for the kitchen and rest of the house, also toys. It was heaving when we went in on a rainy day in the height of the summer.

I was really pleased when one (much much smaller than China Blue) opened in our local town. It's a cafe downstairs with the pottery painting upstairs. We've been once and we were pretty much the only people there, don't know if that is typical. They do always seem to be busy in the cafe though.

I think it is a lot to move and set up a new business in one go (and I speak as someone who has set up a small business this year and who has moved 4 times in the last 8 years) I think I personally would go for the renting it out/holiday flats option initially, so you can spend a bit of time getting settled and to know people locally, then decide what to do with it.

The family I know who have set up a pottery/cafe live in East Anglia. Both parents are working artists, so they have a studio for their own work and that of other local artists (anything from pottery, paintings, hand-made chairs & tables etc).

There is also an adjoining space which houses an organic cafe, the food being mainly locally produced and managed by someone else. I think the manager pays rent for the premises and any profit is her own. Same applies to the studio I believe.

They also have a couple of rooms which they let on a B&B basis.

Basically it's a couple of barns which they converted into 3 or 4 spaces. They've been going for quite a few years now, but I think they had a fair amount of money/assets anyway.

HTH

if you were looking to run a cafe type establishment I would look to try and buy an existing one rather than starting from scratch. If you can buy a business that has already been established, it will already have a reputation, regular customers etc, whereas if you start such a business from scratch you have to attract customers and this takes a lot of time/money with marketing campaigns etc, also it's harder too attract customers to a new eastablishment as a lot of them will already have loyalty to different such places iyswim.

you could maybe buy a cafe and branch out into the pottery element at a later date if that was really what you wanted.

scatterbrain - it sounds to me like what you actually want is to work less hours to spend more time with your DD.starting your own business will mean that you will work MORE not less, at least for the first few years.

Setting up a business that makes most of its money from tourists means that you will need to work all the school holidays. You metion "holidays" - you wont have any unless you are willing to take your DD out of school for a few weeks. Most pottery cafes make money from birthday parties etc, so you will need to be open saturday and sunday.Is that really what you want?

If you want to work fewer hours, why don't you go part time? Or give up work if you can afford it? Or train for a job you enjoy more than your existing one?

I think you do sound as though you are very enthusiastic about this house and moving to Devon. But i think your ideas of business at this stage are really not going to give you the lifestyle you crave which is more home time with dd and less work time.

Any business start up is stressful in the extreme whatever people tell you or appears on Tv/magazines etc

You really do have to have a feel for the area you are going into which will give you the basics so at the very least go and work in a Pottery Cafe. if working in someone else's for 3 or 6 months deosn't appeal then it won't work for you as most of the work is grind in these retail businesses. There is pressure to be open all hours, to please customers whatever scacrifice you make yourself vis a vis days /hours off family events birthdays, Summer holidays etc as they expect you to be working. if you employstaff they do not have the same goals and ambition and desire to make the business work that you do, they want pay. Pay in retail is poor at all levels. It is anti social hours.

If your dh can keep the family on his salary as easily in Devon as you think then make the move, choose a nice place and and give up work for a while yourself. then take the time to research areas for a potential business or a aprt time job. Do you have any hobbies or talents or skills? Do you want to take risks? Do you mind seeing little of your family and being obsessed with business for several years with the possibility of small returns?

It's interesting that people keep saying that most people in Devon are poor - I just don't see this - the area we are looking in is quite affluent - lots of big houses, kids in private school etc - lots of horsey types, nice cars

well it sodding well is because people come here to open "frilly" businesses and price everyone local out of the market. It gets to the point in some villages that nearly everyone is from bloody London...

anyone remember Posey Simmons in the Guardian and the fictional Cornish village of Tresoddit?