Been offered a job but am 12 weeks pg. WWYD?

[Fuscus]

Am hoping someone can advise... I've been offered a job which I'd love to do. Perfect hours. They've offered me first refusal. I need to let them know tomorrow. They don't know I'm pg... I don't think, legally, I have to say anything yet but I think it would be the right thing to do. Where do I stand?

I'm with Bubble my exdh business was brought to its knees by two women doing this and have never employed a woman since it may be legal but it's wrong and you know it or you wouldn't be asking.

If you haven't had your scan I would wait and tell them once you've had it, you can then say that you wanted to be honest asap but because you've had a miscarriage before you weren't confident until after your scan.

I was pregnant a few months ago and know I wouldn't have applied for a new job in the early weeks just because I was pg. Then I miscarried at 6 weeks. A few weeks later a job came up and I applied and got it. I'm now 11 weeks pg and my perspective has really changed, if the job had come up in these first 12 weeks I would have gone for it no worries because nothing is guaranteed especially in early pregnancy and it would be awful to pass up on a job opportunity and then lose the baby anyway.

I know this isn't the same as your situation but just wanted to share my experience and perspective on the first 12 weeks

I was once in this position. A small local company I interviewed for came back to me about 2 months later to offer me the job as it hadn't worked out with their first choice. By this point I was about 4 week's pregnant and turned the job down as I felt it wasn't fair on them.

I think that it would be difficult to build up a sound relationship based upon trust, having with-held an important piece of information when you were recruited. I realise that this is not the pc answer, nor does it fit it with the legalities, but the fact is that you would (possibly) be affecting the health of a small business which - like many others - has possibly had to fight to survive. In turn, this could affect the wellbeing of other employees.

I suppose you have to ask yourself if you are happy to put yourself and your future employer in that position.

If they like you enough to come back with a position that suits you, they might actually respect the fact you've been open.

Congratulations on your pregnancy.

I was offered a job, was negotiating terms and found out I was pregnant. I accepted the job and when I sent back the signed contract I told them I had just found out I was pregnant (literally 4 weeks).

They suddenly decided they didn't need that role anymore and the offer was revoked. They re advertised two months later.

Nothing I could do!

"having with-held an important piece of information when you were recruited.....,the fact is that you would (possibly) be affecting the health of a small business"

But why is that piece of information important? How does imparting the information a few days sooner make a difference to the "health of a small business"?

If I don't tell them today, I don't see that it will impact the health of the business. It might annoy them in that they could have got someone who could have worked more long term and will have to replace me but it's only a receptionist type job and should be fairly easy to fill - the hours are good.

I need to call them but am really torn. Between being pg and needing 3 weeks holiday (they are aware of one of the weeks) and it being a 25 mile round trip, it doesn't seem like the best thing to do. Yet I really want to do it!

Personally I can see both sides and as an employment lawyer this comes up frequently. Employers hate it and may see you as dishonest/untrustworthy.

I would ring them and tell them that you really want to accept but that you are concerned about doing so because you feel its only right to let them know that you're pregnant.

In reality they will then be forced to say "The pregnancy isn't an issue the offer stands" you can then accept but it will be much harder for them to justify holding a grudge because you did the right thing (at least on the fact of it).

Thank you. I know there is no legal obligation to tell them but it feels like the right thing to do and I'd feel uncomfortable telling them in a few weeks. I'm going to need time off for appointments etc.

It feels odd telling a stranger though when my family don't know.

It irritates me because all these people who talk about being "honest" and doing the "right thing" don't actually mean they think the woman should be honest at all, because IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE if they tell the employer just before or just after an offer.

What these people actually mean when they say that is that either they think they should be allowed to discriminate and not offer a woman a job because she is pregnant, or they think women who are pregnant should not apply for/accept jobs with new employers.

Why not be honest about that? Why blame the woman for not being "honest" during recruitment when actually what you mean is the above? If that's what you think, say so. Take ownership of your opinions!

The information itself makes no difference during recruitment, what makes a difference is the fact that discrimination is unlawful in the first place. If it were perfectly lawful to discriminate and women withheld the information, I could understand, but it's not.

And given the attitudes of some, I find it astonishing that some people blame women for not being honest. Of course they are not! What reason is there to be? It makes no difference to the business and the only possible difference it could make is leading the business to discriminate against them, which is a negative outcome all round.

Ugh, I feel so awkward! I'll only be there for about 4 months and need 3 weeks holiday in that time. It feels like I'm taking the piss.

Flowery you and I are generally in complete agreement (I'm under a name change) but I have to disagree here. It is one thing to be a pregnant female working in a role and then being treated differently because of the pregnancy. It is quite another to accept a new job (where the employer obviously has a need for someone to be immediately physically present to the extent that they have gone out to recruit) knowing that in a few months you'll be off for up to a year. That sort of behaviour does female employees no service at all and its the sort of thing that enables those who do discriminate to justify their view that female employees of child bearing age are an inferior choice to male employees of the same age.

I agree that disclosing it or not it makes no difference whatsoever to the employer's legal obligation to discount it as an issue but it will make a difference to the employer's perception of the OP as an honest/trustworthy person who wanted to "do the right thing".

Can you actually afford to take the role OP given that you will only get sma?

We are a small company and it is a tough world out there. A fairly skilled, senior person went on maternity leave. We replaced her with another female who, we realised later, knew she was pregnant when she started with us. She cost us a fortune in recruitment fees. She left before the original person came back off Mat leave and we had to have a very expensive temp to cover the gap between the two. The department has been a mess for about two years with all this to-ing and fro-ing.
Boss has vowed never to recruit women of child-bearing age again.

I'm 100% with Flowery here. if the OP informs them of their pregnancy now, there is every chance the job offer will be withdrawn. How can that possibly be the honest, fair and moral outcome?

When you employ someone, there are risks. They might prove unreliable, have an undeclared condition that means a lot of unplanned time off, leave after expensive training, leave with your best customers, screw up a major contract. If you have the right recruitment process, and hire the right person, that person will still be the right person on their return from maternity leave. Maternity leave is actually manageable - yes even for small businesses. It's finite, it can be planned for and the person isn't vanishing with the company secrets.

I'd much rather hire someone that delivers value to the company for a short time, than make an expensive hiring mistake.

In my view, saying don't hire a pregnant woman is exactly the same as saying all jobs should go to 35 year old men (old enough to be reliable, not too old to be past it). Should women also declare undiagnosed breast lumps, because if it turns out to be cancer there will be lots of absence? Just think where that line of thought takes you.

The right person for the job is the right person for the job. Anything else is discriminatory.

The job offer won't be withdrawn unless the company is very badly advised. If it is then the OP can sue.

"It is quite another to accept a new job (where the employer obviously has a need for someone to be immediately physically present to the extent that they have gone out to recruit) knowing that in a few months you'll be off for up to a year."

That's a perfectly valid point of view. My point is that people moan that women aren't "honest", when what they actually mean is they think women shouldn't accept the job in the first place, and should either not apply or should withdraw gracefully.

They complain about a breach of trust and say the woman should have said something, and that they cannot trust her as a result. But unless they think they should be allowed to discriminate, what they mean is that they think the woman should not accept the role in the first place. I just want people to take ownership of their opinions and not hide behind something else. I'd have a lot more sympathy! I work with small businesses day in day out, so it's not as if I'm talking from a position of no understanding of the impact.

There are thankfully very robust laws in place to protect women from this type of discrimination. The days of being sacked for getting pregnant are no longer, and the withdrawal of a job offer because of pregnancy ( disclosed or otherwise ) is a fast track to industrial tribunal, and rightly so.

Would I apply for a job knowing I was pregnant ? For a desk job in the Coca Cola corporation, maybe. For a small business in a small town ? No.

So flowery yes, I do believe it comes down to honesty, and ethics. And I don't belong to the "put youself first and fuck everybody else" school of thought.

"the withdrawal of a job offer because of pregnancy ( disclosed or otherwise ) is a fast track to industrial tribunal, and rightly so."

I am pleased that you agree that withdrawing a job offer because of pregnancy should be unlawful. However, given that is your opinion, why do you think the employee you referred to earlier should have told you before you confirmed the offer in writing that she was pregnant, rather than afterwards? What difference would it have made to you, over a matter of presumably a few days?

It's great that you would not have discriminated anyway, even if you'd known prior to offering her the job, and agree that it would be wrong to do so, but surely you can see that she would have no way of knowing that about you, and would be right to be concerned that you might discriminate, given the responses on here?

The job offer won't be withdrawn unless the company is very badly advised. If it is then the OP can sue.

The job offer would not be withdrawn because of pregnancy - not even the most uninformed employer would do that these days. It would be budget cuts, restructure, problem with references, internal redeployment so job doesn't exist. And it pops up as a new vacancy with a different title a few weeks later.

either way it would be very obvious to the OP and she could claim

I wouldn't feel comfortable accepting a job knowing that I was 12 weeks pregnant. It will put the employers of females for a start.
It will come back to haunt you when you return after maternity leave.

I once accepted a job when I'd just found out I was pregnant. I was temping there, a permanent post came up and I applied for it, I found out I was pregnant a few days before I was offered.

I was really worried it would look bad, but to be honest no one gave a shit (not publicly anyway) and my new boss was nothing but happy for me (to my face anyway)

I know slightly different as I was already temping there, but it may not be as bad as you think I know in retrospect I was worrying over nothing really.

Oh and I had to tell them really early on as I had a medical conditon which meant weekly antenatal appointments, so I kind of waited for the ink to dry on my contract then told them. It was all fine!

I wouldn't, it feels wrong to me and I couodnt do it. Very unfair on the new employer and sets a tone from the start.

Women have a hard enough time in the workplace, this may make them think twice about offering another woman a job next time.