Competitive salary???

[MrsWhirling]

What does it mean if a job advert doesn't give a figure for the salary, but just says 'competitive' instead?

In my field it is pretty common to find salaries described that way, if jobs are advertised at all. The salaries are not necessarily low.

"I'm not sure the solution is make salaries more inflexible. That could easily entrench the disadvantage."

I'm not personally advocating removal of flexibility, but I'm interested by your comment. Could you explain that? How do you think having a fixed range of x for job y could "entrench the disadvantage?"

Well, my old firm used it when we were advertising a job and the pay band has a £50k margin! But didn't want to advertise that.
It depends on the job.

I don't apply for these roles either. Simply because I know how much I need to earn/my worth. Applying for jobs takes hours and I'm time poor.

Unless I'm sure of the salary band I don't have the time to faff about applying for jobs that may or may not meet my criteria.

my old firm used it when we were advertising a job and the pay band has a £50k margin! for the same job??

It's not just not putting a salary range on an ad though, it's the practice of having salaries secretive and all negotiated on an individual basis in an organisation or sector that contributes (imo) significantly to inequality in pay between men and women

I agree that is true but the answer is as finallyhere says: encourage woman to know their value and negotiate hard.

iguana the role I was mentioned up thread the margin was close to double that. Advertising that would have achieved nothing.

This is something I dislike too. There are so few jobs these days that advertise the salary. I agree it's a feminist issue and it means the company aren't transparent with their pay structures, which means you need to wonder why.

I wouldn't apply for a job again that refused to say what ballpark the salary was in, it's a vital piece of information and key in whether I'd take the job.

I had an interview where I've been asked at the end of the interview what my current salary is and what my expectations are. (I hate that question at the best of times). To be told at this stage "oh, that's a bit higher than we can offer for this role".

At this point I've done the hours for the application, then the prep for the interview, interview itself and traveling to and from, and taken up an hour or two of the hiring manager and HR person's time.

Seriously, that is such a waste of everyone's time.

"I agree that is true but the answer is as finallyhere says: encourage woman to know their value and negotiate hard."

A combination of both. Transparency and fairness from one side, confidence and negotiation skills on the other.

encourage woman to know their value and negotiate hard.

While I agree with this, another issue is that women are often judged more harshly for the same behaviours as men (bossy vs manager, for example), and when it comes to promotion, women tend to be judged on their achievements and men on their potential. The same biases are at play in pay negotiations, especially when it's all secret.

And it's all very well telling women to know our value, but salary secrecy is something that in itself mitigates against this.

Good point liesel, if a woman doesn't know her male colleagues are earning 30% more than she is, she can't argue that she is worth the same.

Very good point! ^^

Well, no, not really

Saying that , well you pay him £x so i should get the same is not a powerful argument.

Saying I can contribute this, that and the other, which will increase your turnover (or whatever is important to the person interviewing) by y% a year and thus I expect £xx salary is a more powerful position to adopt. And if you don't know what value you will contribute, well, it may be time to work it out. Regardless of your chromosomes. Seriously,

No Finally, I think you are seriously wrong with that.

You cannot know what you are worth or what the organisation/industry is willing to pay someone of your skills/etc unless you know what the going rate is.

It is perfectly acceptable to think person A, B and C get paid X, I am better than all of them and I bring Y & Z to the organisation that they don't, so I should be paid an additional X thousand.

Denying that means that you are perpetuating the problem of women people not being paid fairly.

Going back to the op, competitive salary if anything means to me that it's a senior job and salary is negotiable. In my field (higher ed), positions in the senior echelon (deans, vice chancellor) are all competitive salaries. We have a scale that's pretty standard but many positions have added responsibilities (eg professor and also head of dept or head of school). These with added roles will have a higher pay or some kind of compensation compared to a professor who doesn't have the extra role.

It's not just about performing a comparative analysis against your colleagues though is it?

And how do men apparently know their worth whilst woman don't when there is no evidence that men's salaries are any more transparent than their female counterparts?

I'm not denying that inequality re salaries exist - I am aware first hand it does - but I think it is far more complex than saying I don't know what men get paid for the same role so have no benchmark against which to pitch.

Obviously entirely anecdotal but years ago someone said to me in an interview, when asked about a skill they don't have a woman will set out how she can acquire the skill, often with a detailed action plan and the benefits. When faced with the same question a man will explain why his existing skills mean that "missing" skill is unnecessary for the role. Every interview I've sat in over the years (and there have been many) have borne out the truth of that anecdote.

I think the point is that if you don't know what anyone gets for the same role, which you don't if secrecy is strict enough, you've no benchmark against which to pitch. That would be equally true for men and women. But that environment is when the well documented tendencies for men to value themselves more than women, women being more harshly judged for asking for more, men being judged on potential and women on achievements etc would kick in.

"Saying that , well you pay him £x so i should get the same is not a powerful argument."

Fortunately for women, legislation these days says that is in fact a powerful argument.

"Saying I can contribute this, that and the other, which will increase your turnover (or whatever is important to the person interviewing) by y% a year and thus I expect £xx salary is a more powerful position to adopt."

Surely you must realise there are thousands and thousands of jobs where saying "I bring x therefore I expect y salary" simply isn't an option?!

I was sent a link for this event - Negotiating the pay gap.

Very helpful all thank you. I have applied for the job and there was an opportunity to include my current salary. If I am offered it, I will be sure to flag up my current benefits xx