Advice needed please.. DS (17) and his PT job - correct procedure by employer?

[Jellykat]

Something doesn't seem right..

DS (17) has had a PT Saturday job, where i work (in independent retail) since May 2014. He has been employed to work extra shifts during busy periods, and dropped back down to just Saturdays (6 hours) and recently Mondays (4 hours) because it's quieter.

Neither of us have a written contract, and there is no manager.

While at work last week, i was told by our employer, that 2 customers had commented that DS didn't maintain much 'eye contact' when serving, (one of which is a close friend of our employer, whose DS happens to start work in the shop 'packing' next week) and a core member of staff who works twice a month, finds him 'awkward' to talk to.

DS is Dyspraxic, and can lack confidence, but i can confirm he is always polite and helpful with customers, and spots things other members of staff don't, he works as hard as everyone else.

Our employer then said she was dropping him on a Saturday. This coincides with my overhearing a friend of hers confirming she could work on Saturdays 2 days earlier.

Sorry long winded, but basically DS has lost his Saturday job suddenly after 1.5 years, and with no warning or prior consultation with him on how he can improve his customer service. In fact it was left up to me to tell him.

I have informed our employer that she actually needs to talk to him on Monday morning, and he wants me present. I don't think she can sack him without a chance to improve his customer skills, but he has already lost his Saturday work.

I understand the correct procedures haven't been followed. Any advice re. what we can do please?

So is he still due to work on Mondays? If he was employed on a casual, ie zero hours basis then the shifts aren't "his". Also within 2 years they can let him go for no reason without penalty, with a few excepted circumstances ie. Maternity.

Apologies for the clumsy wording, but if you can link say, poor customer service to a disability and the employer hasn't taken reasonable steps to help then it could be disability discrimination, and you could bring a claim at any time.

He's still got 4 hours on a Monday, a drop from £40 a week, to £16.

There's no employment details, so i don't know if he's 'casual', only the newbie employers who started in the Summer have contracts (on the advice of our employers accountant) we were supposed to have them, but it hasn't been done.

You could call ACAS for advice before the meeting. A contract doesn't need to be written. £4 ph seems very low, what about holiday pay etc?

Unthought hmm i had thought of that, it's gonna be a tough one to link. Particularly as it's only 2 customers in hundreds.

He's been getting holiday pay on his odd day off.

£4 per hour is just above the NMW for 17 yr. olds. He was due to get an increase to £5.30 in 2 months time, when he's 18.

Just googled 'casual workers', no he's not, as he has been a part of the permanent workforce, with fixed hours up until now.

Just found out our employer is not meeting with us tomorrow, instead she has texted a huge rant to my mobile for my DS, regarding the importance of communication and working together within the shop.

So no 'informal verbal warning' to my DS, and no discussion about what the problem is with him.

ACAS will have to be called tomorrow i think

Wow. What exactly is the rant aimed at?

Bit ironic for her to be ranting at your ds about lack of communication after she has communicated observations about his lack of eye contact to you and not ds.

I know, exactly jubblie!

Yes Poltergoose, our employer knew about his Dyspraxia even before she employed him. ACAS said that if she sacks him before making reasonable attempts to work around his limitations, and help him, there may be a cause for a discrimination case.

I know i probably sound over-protective, but i've been in retail for 32 years, and i know his customer skills are fine. No he doesn't initiate chat very often with other members of staff, but they're all women, ranging from 28 to 68, and theres not a lot of common ground with a 17 yr old young man. He has never ever been rude, just quiet. Not a sackable offence surely?

I would be wary of going down a discrimination route for your DS no matter how much you want to protect him. At such a young age, it could be on his employment record.

As probably his first job, if it were my son I would encourage him to move on quickly find a new job and see if they would give him a general, bland reference he can use in a new role, in return for him leaving quickly and quietly. A work reference at his age is valuable

Employment battle are stressful enough when they are for full time adult employment so I would pick your battles on this one!

Nothing indicating she is sacking him though is there? She's reducing his hours.

If she's happy for him to work other days you might struggle to argue that reducing his hours was discriminatory - either she's happy for him to work or she's not.

In terms of procedure to reduce hours, well technically consent is needed to vary contractual terms, but as she can dismiss him with a week's notice anyway, in reality as long as she gives that amount of notice there's not anything to complain about there, as she could just dismiss and then reengage and have the same effect.

As a general point, bringing a claim against an employer is no more "on his employment record" for a young worker than it is for anyone else, although I agree a reference is perhaps more important in a situation where there might not be references available from previous employers.

That's not to say I think he should necessarily bring a claim - on the basis of what you say that might be challenging, although obviously things might develop. I agree with Daisy that he should look for something elsewhere. Doesn't sound a great place to work anyway, if the employer is happy to break the law by not issuing written contracts.

I agree with Flowery.

I think you want to look at what you want to get out of this long term. He's 17, it's his first job. He's not being sacked, just a reduction in hours. A good reference will be of far more value than winning a few hours back at a low rate of pay.

The alternative is he raises a grievance, it's upheld, he "wins" the hours back. (probably creating a bit of bad feeling). Or he loses, bruising his confidence further, and the company finds a reason to let him go completely and there will be no reference.

"I think you want to look at what you want to get out of this long term"

As another aside, this is by far the most important thing to consider when deciding how to address any employment problem.

Although principles are important, finding the most effective path to the best outcome for the individual is even more so IMO.

After a rethink, i agree that the discrimination angle is not worth the stress.

The text i received to relay to him, ended with a 'and we will see if things improve'.. I read that as a warning. I have discovered that he can be sacked without notice, as he has worked for less then 2 years. That's a lot of pressure on him.

We spent yesterday writing his CV, and he'll be printing copies off this week. Unfortunately we live in a very very rural area, and the majority of work is seasonal, so jobs are like gold dust at this time of year.

I'm worried that any reference will focus on this so called lack of eye contact etc business, rather then the fact he's never been late, quickly spots when topping up stock is required, and is helpful to customers.. the more positive aspects.

He has been upset at times with the job, the knowledge that he is expected to work as hard if not harder then other members of staff, on £4 an hour, has affected him at times. I have stressed that everyone has to start somewhere, and the experience and reference is vital for a heads up at the next job interview. The possibility of 1.5 years of working hard, with little appreciation, and possibly not even a decent reference to show for it now, has really affected him.

I would n't worry about the reference , most are just factual basics these days Ie. I confirm that X was employed as a part time sales assistant between date1 and date 2. Good idea to apply for other jobs, does he go to college on the other days, could he get an apprenticeship while getting a nvq in say Customer Service.

Hi LIZS, thank you, good to know, it's been many years since i've been involved with references.
Yes, he's at college for 3.5 days a week, studying ICT for the next 2 years, which limits availability for other things.

All references have to be factual. It is true some very large organisations only confirm dates of employment. This is not by any means universal- and not even "most".

I see many reference forms. Most ask "Would you re-employ?". A no in the box tells a potential employer all they need to know.