Awful accountants have screwd up my VAT return and I now owe a lot more

[Swifey]

I also seem to owe an awful lot of company tax, even after hardly owing anything. I am vat registered, but don't know if it's worthwhile, and wonder what to do. I am a ltd company. My accountants are terrible, and have accepted that they got the vat wrong, and not me, but I am still accountable for it. I really need an accountant who will help and explain to me which is the best way around, what I can claim for, etc. My accountants refuse to do this, and I feel I am practically paying out more than I get!! Please help, and if anyone knows of any good accountants in Wiltshire, south glos, or west Berkshire that would be great. I would also like to know how you find good and friendly accountants. Any help gratefully received.

Bad times OP. selfishly placemarking as OH has just set himself up self employed and is hoping I can pick this side of things up for him but we're both slightly baffled by it having worked for The Man until now.

In the meantime, let's put the kettle on shall we.

I am terrified, I've just been sent a £4260 bill for company tax which I can't pay!! Tea might not cut it! ;-)

Have you got a copy of the company tax return and computation? If not get them from your accountant - you have paid for them to do this work.
The tax return will have a bit that takes the profit from the company accounts (which you also should have - again, if not, get a copy from the accountants) and adjusts (things like adding back depreciation, customer entertaining, other non-deductible things, claiming capital allowances) to get the taxable profit. This is then taxed at 20% (given the size).

Ignoring adjustments a £4k tax bill would give you profits are around £20k - do that sound right?

Are your accountants part of a trade organisation (ICAEW, ACCA etc?). If so, report them to their organisation. Also look at whether you have a claim for negligence against them. A new accountant could advise you as to whether they appear to have been negligent.

Sorry can't help with recommendations, not in your area.

My accountants are fab and they have been handling my company and personal tax for about 12 years! They are personable, professional and give great advice. They are based in West Hendon, London - and I'm not - but this isn't a problem as everything is handled via telephone, email or the post. Let me know if you'd like their details.

Corporation tax (which I assume is what you mean by company tax) and VAT are separate.

Are you registered for the flat rate VAT scheme? It is a lot easier and may save you money, depending on your balance of input and output VAT.

They are in Berkshire, try Edmonds. www.edmonds-accountancy.co.uk/

my dad is self employed and uses them after his previous accountants messed up his accounts leaving him with tax bills in the tens of thousands that they are still trying to sort out. First thing is first though I would ring the tax office and explain the situation making an arrangement to pay in instalments while the problem is sorted out.

If you want to know the name of the company to avoid, pm and I will give you the name. Its also Reading based.

you should have been advised of the Corporation Tax due now, when the Tax Return was filed, as the demands are generally issued months before the tax is due. This gives you plenty of time to put the tax aside usually.

Your accountant should be a member of a Professional body as another poster mentioned, and they should have insurance which would cover them if they have made a mistake.

i am confused though as you mention an error on VAT and that Corp Tax is due, so these are two separate issues. Are you able to clarify a bit more??

personal recommendation is the best way of finding an accountant, it's how I get most of my work now, from friends of existing clients. i am not in your area and not licenced to do Limited Companies anyway, so not touting for business! I would ask your friends who they use, or visit a couple in your area, most offer a free initial appointment, and see if you can find somebody you like. You can also compare quotes that way too

I can't recommend anyone but I'm an accountant and just at wanted to say I know it seems really unfair but you really need to know your stuff inside out and just have them sign it off. You will always be liable for any errors or delays they make and you need to know that what they're doing is right. I know it seems to defeat the object of paying someone but the responsibility to calculate and pay your tax correctly stays with you at all times.
Ideally you'd do all the calculations yourself and just pay an accountant to sign it off. This will cost less too.

You don't have to have an accountant to sign off if you aren't having an audit, though you might prefer this.

OP
I would suggest that you post up onto this board
www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/accounts-finance.55/
for
(a) a new accountant
(b) assistance with reading the letters and forms so that you know exactly what you owe and for what periods and which taxes

Were the accountants qualified? Many people don't realise that anyone can call themselves an accountant and set up an accountancy practice, even if they aren't qualified or don't have the relevant experience. There's no regulation or protection of the term "accountant" unlike a solicitor or financial adviser or doctor etc. If you use a qualified one, at least you'll have their professional body to complain to if things go wrong and they'll have professional indemnity insurance to reimburse any losses.

First things first. Check whether your current accountants are ICAEW or ACCA firms. If they are, then you will be able to make a complaint and you may have recourse to both a legal claim and compensation. Second - find a new accountant. ICAEW and ACCA have lists of firms by geographical location. Do not, under any circumstances, use a firm that is not an ICAEW or ACCA member firm (one PP has recommended a firm that is apparently not a member of either professional body. I wouldn't go with them if I was you). Don't be lulled into a false sense of security by websites proclaiming other qualifications (eg certified bookkeeper). what you need is ICAEW or ACCA.

Having said all this I would also say that sometimes people blame their accountants when in fact it's not the accountants' fault, they just haven't been provided with complete or accurate information. So, when you speak to your new accountants make sure you give them all the information they need and make sure it is accurate.

I've made a mistake on VAT before and simply corrected it and made a note in the next quarter; if it's below a certain amount that seemed to be ok.

Different businesses may vary, I don't know.

what you need is ICAEW or ACCA.
Bilge.
What you need is competent.

I've picked up the pieces from ICAEW training firms who put unsupervised junior staff onto jobs.

The CCAB list of qualifications is much wider than just those two sets of letters.

what you want is to use somebody who works for somebody you know and trust and has done for many years

It's not bilge. There's a difference between qualified and not, there's a difference between being regulated and not and there's a difference between having adequate PII and not. You realise that if things go wrong (as they may have done in the OP's case). The other CCAB bodies - CIMA and CIPFA - are management accounts and public sector specialists not corporate specialists. Obviously ICAS is fine for corporate stuff but the OP is not in Scotland.

Another aspect is that some firms themselves aren't qualified/regulated but place a lot of emphasis on having employees who are qualified ACCA or ACA. Clients aren't protected in these cases - if something goes wrong, the client has a case against the firm, not their employees! The risk is that the firm won't have insurance to put things right! You often find that a firm is "officially" owned by Mrs Smith, but that it's Mr Smith, a so-called employee who has the qualification - a very good and effective way to get around the requirements for practicing certificates, insurance etc!

I am not ACCA or ICAEW but I am a member of a professional body and I have Indemnity insurance. I had an inspection last year by the ICAEW.

So would just like to say that they do not have to be ACCA or ICAEW but they do need to have Indemnity insurance and be registered with a professional body, if you are looking for somebody with a professional qualification.

Skye - were you inspected because your firm is regulated? I can't see how ICAEW would have the authority to inspect 'you' if you are not a member otherwise...

I am a member of the AAT, I am a FMAAT and I am a Licensed Member In Practice, and the ICAEW carry out the inspections on behalf of the AAT. i also have Indemnity insurance because I am a member of the AAT.

There are far more than two professional accountancy bodies though,

British Qualified Accountants according to wikipedia members of professional accountancy bodies must have a practise certificate before selling services to the public.

I would agree with several other posters, you really do want an ICAEW (with FCA or ACA) after their name or an ACCA (with FCCA or ACCA) after their name.

AAT, whilst it is a good valid qualification is one of 'Accounting technician' and not actually a fully qualified accountant. It is a lower level of qualification than the ones in my first paragraph.

There are also several accountancy bodies where you effectively just have to pay to be a member and any other requirements are very easy to fulfil. Most of these are not worth the ink to write the letters after their name.

Good luck finding someone new.

But again, as a former member of one of the bodies on that Wikipedia page, and a current member of another,
there are crap FCAs and great time barred unqualified.

I would always say - go by recommendation of somebody who has dealt with them for several years. I do not advertise at all in any form. I tend not to use my letters if I can help it : because none of the bodies has the foggiest about my niche.
BUT
I have a family tree of clients that goes back 25 years - I know who introduced me to each going back to before I even qualified.

That's the paradox though isn't it? The good ones don't need to advertise, and the bad ones are constantly losing clients so have to heavily market themselves to keep the work coming in!

Of course, best is to get a recommendation from someone else already happy with their accountant. BUT, if you don't know anyone in that position, then clearly more likely to get a good accountant by checking they're properly qualified and regulated rather than by risking a firm that isn't where there may be no come-back if things go wrong.

But even well-recommended accountants can be crooks - plenty of people have suffered from a bad accountant or financial adviser who was trusted and had seemed to be competent and honest for years (if not decades) earlier. So, a properly qualified accountant AND someone who is recommended to you by a friend or colleague is obviously the best option to minimise risk of incompetence or dishonesty.

My first accountant was ACCA - he's currently serving time for ripping off clients for large sums, so being a member of any of those bodies doesn't mean that there aren't any bad practitioners nor does it mean that honest mistakes aren't made.

Of course simlondon there are good and bad at every level.

However by going for either ICAEW or ACCA you are guaranteed a base level of training (3yrs minimum to qualify) plus a couple of years post-qualification experience to get a practising certificate. They also have to be insured and do CPD.

Of course accountants that do not have the above qualification may be trained to the same degree, may have PII, may do sufficient CPD but are under no obligation to do so. As an earlier poster said, anyone can call themselves an accountant. At least with a properly qualified you are guaranteed they have the training and ongoing supervision.