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Original poster

Flexible working request declined - Advice on appealing?

49 replies

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 12:19

I am due to return to work in June and applied to return to work either doing 3 or 4 days a week. I received a letter today to say that they don't agree to either.

Is there anyone I can speak, or anywhere I can look for advice on appealing their decision?

OP posts:

Thurlow · 19/05/2015 14:10

I don't see how they are going to offer you redundancy. The job still exists; it isn't a role being made redundant. As prepper says, the options basically appear to be work full-time or resign.

I do sympathise because a more long-sighted view would be that they will probably get more work out of a very experienced member of staff in 4 days than from a newer member of staff, but that's now how many companies see it.

Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 14:12

I did also write in the post above 'Thankyou for your replies' but it seems to have disappeared.

I am so annoyed/pissed off with my manager, I hope that it doesn't sound as though I am annoyed with the people who are kind of enough to respond (if I sound short it's because I'm really upset)

OP posts:

Thurlow · 19/05/2015 14:16

I can tell you are It does suck, absolutely.

Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 14:28

Do I have any grounds for an indirect sex discrimination case given that they have previously agreed to me working 4 days a week in this role, and now they are not? I feel that they could have agreed to 4 days a week if they felt so inclined. (as per this advice here, although the reasons for the declined application are different)

www.workingmums.co.uk/advice-and-support/my-flexible-working-request-has-been-rejected-ask-the-expert/

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Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 14:31

Although it's the same role it's a different manager (who is already being pulled up on his poor management)

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MsAdorabelleDearheartVonLipwig · 19/05/2015 14:31

Sounds like a standard response to me. My dh applied for flexible hours and got almost word for word your response. He is part of a huge team in a power station and not anywhere near a customer demand position. Turns out the department manager just doesn't like flexible hours. Other departments within the company are happy to do it.

Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 14:37

Yeah my current manager is very rigid in his outlook.

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Want2bSupermum · 19/05/2015 14:38

Based on their reply I would ask to work from home one day a week. Make it a Friday and sign your DC up for an activity.

Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 14:39

They don't support homeworking unfortunately. I've asked for that before for various reasons and it's always a flat NO.

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Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 14:43

Actually I suggested it as part of this proposal, if they gave me home access it would minimise the impact of me being out of the office for a day as if there was anything urgent I could deal with it. They weren't interested in that. Current manager is very much of the opinion that the most important thing in doing you job well is being in your chair from 9am - 5pm. If you do that you are a 'Good Employee' regardless of how effective you actually are at your job.

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Want2bSupermum · 19/05/2015 15:08

Yeah that sucks. I would have this in your back pocket and start applying for a new job with your current employer as well as other employers.

I would also raise this with HR and explain you need to work for a manager who is more supportive of family. There will be times in the future that your DC will be sick etc and you need to work for someone who can work with you.

I changed departments so I could go PT. My employer was very happy to do this so I could stay with them. I also had a job offer in my back pocket that I didn't have to tell them about but it gave me confidence anyway!

Want2bSupermum · 19/05/2015 15:14

Doesn't Mn have a new job board. Might be worth looking on there as I would think those roles are family friendly! (At least I hope they would be!)

Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 15:21

I think returning to work whilst looking for something part-time elsewhere is the way forward. As a company though it is very male, and the male's are very well paid so their wives stay at home thus there is very little sympathy for juggling work/children across the entire company. Which is pretty poor considering the size of the company. From what I have seen HR are there to make sure the company don't get themselves into trouble not support the staffs needs. I would happily change departments, I have already asked HR about this but will ask again as they didn't get back to me.

It is very frustrating to feel that I have to choose between my children and a job I've worked at for 10 years. As it happens there has been a change in my partners job while I've been on maternity leave so working isn't the financial necessity it was a year or so ago but I would still like feel like I had some choice in it!

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Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 15:23

It does, there is a quite a big financial incentive to return to my current role after maternity leave so I think in the short term anyway it's worth going back.

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Lovelybitofsquirrel · 19/05/2015 15:36

You could try Maternity Action or ACAS. It's a shame they aren't more open minded.

TravelinColour · 19/05/2015 15:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Thurlow · 19/05/2015 15:39

Try and think of a few positives, nosey, like the money. It's so hard when you're not going back to what you ideally want to do. But it's not forever. Something will change, something else will come along. What you're going back to is not great for now, but it's only for now. Try not to worry about too much into the future.

I went back to a shit job that wouldn't even change my standard hours, let alone consider part-time working. Within the year I found a new job at a much nicer firm. It wasn't a great year, but I think overall it had actually worked out better - I didn't get locked into the shit firm with a p/t contract I couldn't replicate somewhere else, and I didn't quit and rush into the next available job.

I almost feel like saying "chin up"

Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 15:49

Just calculated the money (with the incentive) and that is quite cheering :)

I am better off out of there anyway long term, I know that, but still.. it doesn't really make for a joyful return and I have the headache of sorting out childcare!

I would love it if the men started taking extended paternity leave! I mentioned above that despite the fact the team manager on another team was keen to have me, the big boss vetoed it because I was a maternity risk. The man they got instead had already left the company a few months previously because he didn't like the culture (did bugger all when he was there anyway) and promptly left again a few months later. The man they replaced him with was from another dept and after a couple of months refused to come to work, brought a bullying claim against the company and cost the ££££££££££££££££££££££££'s. Still they'd rather that than a woman of childbearing age!!

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Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 16:04

And thankyou squirell I will give maternity action and ACAS a try and see what they say,

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Original poster

noseymcposey · 19/05/2015 16:25

Maternity action closed at the moment but spoke to ACAS who were a little vague (not sure what I was expecting really!!) but basically said the next step is to appeal.

OP posts:

worridmum · 20/05/2015 01:18

I would like to say paternity leave on the same sort of level of protection as materty leave (its currently not as in companies can fire you if you take extended paternity leave and it would not automatically be a unfair dismissal / discrimination case I dont know why they dont just give PL the exact same rights and protections of ML which would in fact make it more appealing for men to take it

because at the moment its kinda shit yes the company has to let you take it but it can fire you in response to it (even without mentioning it) and not be automatically on dogey ground

mandy214 · 20/05/2015 14:26

I know its not the result that you wanted but going off what you have said, they have been quite accommodating before now - i.e. giving you the extra day when you needed the money. Obviously that suited both parties so it worked.

fedupandduckedfoff · 20/05/2015 18:19

Not sure that is about them being accomodating though!

runlulurun · 21/08/2015 15:21

So to update on this (I am the OP noseymcposey with name change)

I went back to work at end of June. The backlog they had been struggling with for the last year was cleared within two working days.

Having been back a month and got the workload under control I requested a meeting with my line manager, their manager and HR to review their decision. They agreed to meet to discuss (although they are not obliged to do this.)

I presented to them details of how the work could be covered and ideas for reducing the overall workload and I'm pleased to say they agreed this morning that I can change my contract to 4 days a week.

Thankyou for the help and advice above!

One thing I would say, is that although they rejected my application on the basis that the team was too busy it is extremely difficult to prove otherwise when you are still on maternity leave. It was much easier to do that once I was back at work and could have a look at the reality of the situation.

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