New employer doesn't pay sick - do I sign contract?

[mrsmandm]

So, two weeks into my new job I finally get my contract from new employer. I asked for it sooner, but it was not ready. Turns out there are NO benefits and on top of this there's no sick pay (other than SSP). It's not a tiny employer (c100 staff). AIBU? Don't want to sign up to such poor T&Cs but how to I broach it without looking like I'm grasping? And obvs can't go back to my old job now!

Why was it not discussed/asked beforehand? Sadly it's pretty common now. I guess it's up to you to decide if you would manage if sickness strikes (savings etc).

How did you not know this before? Surely benefits should have been discussed before you accepted the job or handed in your notice? It's very difficult to know what you could do at this stage, your new employers will simply state that they don't offer additional benefits and they are unlikely to make an exception for one member of staff. Your choice seems to be fairly stark, either sign the contract or find another job.

Sadly, more and more usual for companies not to pay sick pay, or if they do it's discretionary. Quite rare in SMEs to get paid sick leave.

I don't see what your options are. You could look for another job but unless you go into public sector or a large or unionised environment then there's no guarantees to find paid sick pay there. It's not something that's easy to find out about before job offer, and it's not an easy question to ask during the selection process!

Nothing you can do. When you decide to resign without sight of terms and conditions, that's the risk you take.

I know I am an idiot for not asking but it never even occurred to me that they wouldn't - never worked anywhere they don't and I've worked some much smaller places.
Also, quite hard to ask about sick pay before you start without it looking like you're planning to take loads!

Unfortunately, you'll know next time. I also disagree about it being difficult to ask about Ts&Cs before you start, I think they should be expecting this. I bet if you had told them you couldn't start without signing your contract they would have rustled one up fairly quickly.

Hmmm, wonder if you're starting at my place of work.

My work states no sick pay but they do in certain cases and you are allowed to use holiday at the drop of a hat.

Cassie - sounds a bit haphazard like that!

My employer just suddenly decided they were no longer going to pay sick leave, having always paid it before. It was a bit of a shock, I wasn't even sure it was legal - sadly it is, and becoming more common.

I think it's all at managers discretion. Basically, they have a conscience but they like to get away with what they can

You don't need to ask about sick pay specifically, you need to never resign without seeing the terms and conditions of a job you're moving to.

I have only ever worked for employer's where SSP was the only support available, SMP was worse!

Wow, it's sad how common this is.

Isn't it just expat

I knew my contract was without sick pay but never envisaged I'd be off for so long (3 months atm, then 3 months after surgery whenever that may be )

Fortunately we have a "buffer", not sure how we'd manage if not. In my day (shows age) sick pay was a given.

Full discretionary sick pay is exactly that - discretionary. Whether or not to offer it and for how long is entirely down to the employer. I work in the private sector and one of the most difficult conversations I had recently was withdrawing full discretionary sick pay from someone whose spouse worked in the public sector. The spouse genuinely thought that full pay when sick for 6 months was the norm.

Outside of the public sector this has been the case everywhere I've ever worked, including some extremely large companies. The sick pay is officially discretionary, but in almost all cases is paid, often for very long periods. I know people who were on full sick pay for 2 years, although that would be unusual, 6months wasn't.

Can you talk to someone who can tell you what happens in practise?

Flowery, you make a good point there, but I've never worked anywhere where they've been able to provide a proper contract before I started work. What do you do when the norm in the business is that the contract comes after you start?

Ask for basic terms to be included in the offer letter.

Thank's flowery. I've always had that. Pay, working hours etc, but it's never included sick entitlements.

Never ever hand your notice in without seeing the contract for the new job. That way you get to avoid these sort of stunts.

i'd be looking for another job personally. With those terms you might as well be self employed.

Sorry, just saw that flowery said the same thing.

If they want you for the job then they have to get their finger out and get a contract drawn up. It doesn't instil confidence if they can't even do that.