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Original poster

flexibility clause

26 replies

ThatBloodyWoman · 02/04/2015 22:30

If there is a flexibility clause in your contract to vary your hours for the needs of the business with notice,do you have to make yourself available for the altered hours - ie if you normally work 2-5 on a Thursday and you were given a months notice to work 10-1 on a Saturday instead,but you couldn't get childcare for that day,where would you stand?

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Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 09:53

Anyone?

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LIZS · 03/04/2015 10:00

I would think a month would be deemed "reasonable " to make arrangements. Less than a week probably not.

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 10:11

Thanks LIZS.
I wonder what would be the outcome if childcare quite simply couldn't be found.
Is it reasonable for an employer to expect a person to be able to find childcare for any random hours -or at times,can the employee say,look I've tried and I can't get childcare,but can I offer you another time instead,and would an employer be unreasonable in not being able to accommodate that?

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LIZS · 03/04/2015 10:15

You could try to renegotiate but given this is only occasional and the likely impact being that someone else would have to cover it I wouldn't rate your chances. You are either flexible or not.

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 10:19

Its an alteration to contract that the employer is trying to unilaterally impose.

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Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 10:34

And the employee on taking the position specifically negotiated hours because of issues of lack of childcare,and hourly childcare rates exceeding the hourly pay rate.The employee is the only employee with children young enough to need childcare.

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LIZS · 03/04/2015 11:03

You could speak to ACAS but if you refuse to accept that clause it may mean looking for another job. How long has employee been employed there?

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 11:12

Several years -there is full employment protection.
But the employee really really does not want to lose the job,so doesn't want to have to resort to constructive dismissal/breach of contract claims.
Really appreciating the advice LIZS

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LIZS · 03/04/2015 11:15

Ideally you need advice from Flowery. Limited knowledge here.

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 11:16

Its not so much refusal to accept -it'd be taken on board if it weren't that at times it could present childcare issues.
The employee is trying to accommodate other changes (that are to the employees detriment) but wonders about how to deal with this one.

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Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 11:18

No,thank you so much LIZS Flowers

Hopefully someone else will come along who can advise further.

I'm pretty wised up on employment issues but this is a bit complex -there's always grey amongst the black and white!

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flowery · 03/04/2015 16:22

This is all a bit cryptic, who are you in this scenario OP?

YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 16:25

Is it a one off or that would be the new working day?

SomewhereIBelong · 03/04/2015 16:36

Is your contract saying staff will work their contracted hours according to a rota/roster which can be changed according to the needs of the job?

Most workplaces will have determined your availability upon you getting the job, and my contract stated that if my availability changed I had to notify my employer.

(I said I could not do Thursday or any day before 9am due to transport, so was never rostered for those times - though I had my usual contracted days and times and got a bit irritated if they changed too much, there was no come-back if I had not stated I was unavailable)

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 17:22

Sorry,flowery I am the employee in question.
The real problem is the employer seeking to change carefully negotiated hours to hours that can be varied with notice.
I'm unsure what the notice would be,how often it'd vary etc,but I'm concerned it'd leave me wide open.
I wouldn't have considered the job on those terms when I started work.

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YonicScrewdriver · 03/04/2015 17:30

So currently your contract is "Thursday 2-5" and they want it to be "Thursday 2-5 but otherwise any other 3 hour slot provided employee is given 1 month notice of change"?

flowery · 03/04/2015 19:11

Well the basic position is that your contract cannot be varied without your consent, however if your employer consults properly and has good business reasons why the change is necessary, it could be forced though.

If the proposed new clause is worded such that you must do different hours with notice, and you are not able to consent to that, I would suggest saying that to your employer and proposing a compromise which would involve you being expected to make every reasonable effort to accommodate a request to work different hours, but the right to refuse if necessary.

If you propose a workable compromise, it's less likely your employer will try and force it through.

Have they got a good business reason for this change?

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 03/04/2015 19:57

There is business reason,but nothing that is either new or hasn't been covered with other staffing arrangements in the past.There has been no notice or consultation.
I'm quite happy to compromise and say that I can work x hours instead in instances where I cannot oblige..I want to reach a workable solution -in reality I'm concerned this is being used as a vehicle for me being 'let go' in time for not being able to fulfill the terms of my (new) contract.

Yes, kind of Yonic.It could be any change at any notice they deem reasonable,potentially,I suspect.

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mandy214 · 04/04/2015 19:59

I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but isn't one of the stumbling blocks as far as the employer is concerned (unless you have previously worked outside of normal business hours) that there is no childcare available on a Saturday (childminder / nursery etc). Presumably that has to be considered?

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 05/04/2015 09:33

Well,this is one of the things mandy.
Particularly when you don't live in an urban area,childcare is as rare as rocking horse shit outside of nursery areas.And,anyhow,once your dc's exceed the nurseries upper age limit,that one is out of the window.
I do wonder if its some form of discrimination tbh.

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Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 05/04/2015 09:34

Sorry,outside of nursey times,not areas.

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flowery · 05/04/2015 10:59

If there has been no notice or consultation your employer will struggle to (fairly) impose the change.

Write saying you do not give your consent to the proposed change to your terms and conditions and offer a compromise if you are able.

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 05/04/2015 11:05

Sorry to be a complete pest flowery - I completely appreciate your time that you spend on the likes of me on here Flowers

If I wrote and said I don't consent to the proposed changes,and compromise cannot be reached,could I then write and inform them that I am continuing to work under my original terms and conditions -and put the ball back in their court? Or can I simply just work under my original terms and conditions without writing to them,and see what transpires?

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flowery · 05/04/2015 16:42

Doesn't really make a lot of difference. Once you've notified them in writing that you do not consent to the proposed change the ball is in their court. Either they'll drop it, or they'll up the ante, or compromise.

Original poster
ThatBloodyWoman · 05/04/2015 17:59

Thanks flowery.
Much appreciated.

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