advice on sacking nanny please!

[tanzie]

My horrible nanny (cold stew and microwaved fishfingers) went on maternity leave at the end of February. I have heard nothing from her since; we pay her maternity pay by bank transfer and she refused to leave us any contact details. She rang me tonight, wanting to know if we were going to re-employ her, and saying that she wanted to start back at work next week. I said that this was not possible - we have employed someone else for the period of her maternity leave (15 weeks), the new nanny has a contract and I was not making any decisions at present on having her back to work while she was on her maternity leave.

She has been a crap nanny and to be frank I do not want to see her again. The children have both said they don't want her to come back because she shouted at them and told them to go away and stop "bugging" her all the time (wondered where DD2 had got that expression from). I am not sure that I can legally sack her while she is on matl - I was planning to tell her to take her 4 weeks annual leave after her matl (that might sound draconian but her contract says her leave has to fit in with our wishes), pay her for that, then give her a month's notice and pay her a final month's salary and her fare home if necessary. I know she has been applying for other jobs (I was asked for a reference). I told her this, and her initial reaction was "Who told you that?" followed by denial and suggestion that I must have got her confused with her cousin (mmm right).

I don't want to do anything that is not legal, but if I tell her now that I will not be re-employing her, this will give her more time to look for another job and legalise her stay here. Which I think would be fairer, but I don't want her to kick up a stink and say she is going to sue me for unfair dismissal.

She was a crap nanny, bone idle, gave the kids cold food, left the place looking a tip (toys everywhere, table covered in paint, glue etc) and created work. In addition she lied to me about her husband who came here on a visit sponsored by us and who never went back. She denies this, but the timing of her pregnancy proves it. To be completely frank I just want her out of our lives, and the sooner the better. I know that sounds nasty, but the children have been completely different since the new nanny started,and DD2's playgroup said that when former nanny used to come and pick her up, she used to scream, cling onto people's legs and say she didn't want to go home. She is now sooo much happier.

Any advice? Sorry I have banged on a bit and probably sound like bitch from hell...

Go and see a solicitor and/or the CAB. I'm not sure if the unfair dismissal legislation applies in cases of personal contracts. It's not as if you are a company. But my knowledge of this area of law is pretty scant so I couldn't swear to this.

If she was such a crap nanny, did you ever bring up her shortcomings at the time? It would be difficult to claim this now if you haven't mentioned it previously.

Also, what is she planning to do with her baby whilst looking after your children? Does her contract cover this? You might be able to stipulate that she only care for your children which would then put her in the position of finding childcare for her own child and this might put her off working for you.

I think you mentioned before that the legal position in the country you're living in is a bit difficult? Do your employers have anyone who could advise you?

Do you have to give her a reference BTW? Or can you give examples of her ideas of "care" to any prospective employer? Can't imagine she'll be any different with another family and she doesn't sound fit to be a childcarer.

Is there no discipliniary procedure, as there would be in any other job? Warnings for the cold stew etc? This does sound a completely mad situation for you If she's asking if you are going to re-employ her, that means there must be an expectation on her part that you won't - what is that based on? If you have proof that the husband overstayed, she will be unwilling to take action, won't she? And your severance offer sounds very generous to me.

You don't sound like anyone from hell - you sound like a mother who doesn't want to leave her darlings with unsuitable care!

I don't know if UK rules are relevant but the DTI has quite a helpful page setting out details about unfair dismissal - I can't do web links but if you google on "unfair dismissal" you should find it. From what you have said it sounds as though you should be able to sack her based on performance - does your contract with her cover disciplinary matters? The only downside is that if you've never formally raised these issues with her you might have to go through the process. On the other hand, if you're prepared to pay her three months (which I think is what you're suggesting amounts to) and she recognises the complaints I think she would be stupid not to reach agreement with you.

I'm not a lawyer - but found the dti website when I was dealing with nanny hassles last year. My experience was that a large cheque solved it - I resented paying it but like you just wanted the relationship to end.

tanzie, I thought the nanny was long gone, didn't realise this was going to rear up again!

Is there an equivalent to the CAB where you are? Or might your employer be able to help with legal advice? You need to know what the law is there. She sounds like such an airhead, and not one to worry overmuch about what's legal and what isn't when it suits her, but you can't rely on that to stop her causing trouble, can you?

If she's going to threaten you with unfair dismissal can't you threaten her with deportation for her and/or husband? (Or are they both perfectly legal?)

oh tanzie, I didn't realise you still had the nanny from hell to deal with
I think you have had some excellent advice on this thread. I know you are not in the UK so it might not be entirely the same for you though.
Frankly, I would do as you planned - give her 4 weeks leave and 4 weeks notice, then be done with it. If she kicks up a fuss, I should deal with it then, but I suspect she will make a lot of noise but no real action behind it - besides, you have plenty to fight back with
You don't sound like a bitch at all, just a very considerate person, who wants the best for her children - there is no reason why you should have this woman in your home again, let alone near your children. Whatever she threatens, I can't see any country denying you the right to choose the carer you want for your children - get rid of her and be done with it

I have spoken to someone in my office about legal advice. I cannot sack her while she is on maternity leave or in the month following her maternity leave. So what I am planning to do is tell her to take her annual leave (one month) from 15 June, when she is due back at work, then, on the last day of her annual leave, give her one month's notice and pay her for that month, plus 50% of her 13th month salary. Expensive, but at the end of the day, money well spent. Work colleague who did all the legal stuff for me also spoke to Ministry of Interior. Her DH is definitely illegal, so she probably won't make too much fuss.

Also meant to say, thanks to you all for your advice/support.