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Original poster

Retraining as a secretary

58 replies

coffeewithchips · 16/03/2015 21:24

I have a degree but I would like to retrain in Administration, Secretarial and Office skills as this is the area of work I'm hoping to move into next year.

I've seen a Legal Secretary diploma with ILEX qualification that I'm interested in as it teaches all office skills, shorthand and legal skills. I'm not necessarily hoping to go into the legal admin area (a general PA/secretary office job would be fine too.) Would I be able to apply for secretarial jobs outside law with this diploma or would I be limiting myself?

OP posts:
wobblebobblehat · 19/03/2015 11:20

Another thing I would add is that there is really very few 'traditional' PAs and secretaries any more.

Everywhere I have worked in the last few years (in decent companies) the job is much much bigger. You are effectively a Project Manager on much lower pay and there are so few support staff that all sorts of jobs and questions come your way. Why bother going to one of the engineers or IT staff to help fix the photocopier when there is a PA? Hmm It's very easy to get overloaded so you need to be VERY assertive.

Most of the really good PAs I know who have stuck with it work like slaves.

Laquila · 19/03/2015 12:46

I also second wobblebobble's post

Laquila · 19/03/2015 12:55

This thread has really got me thinking, actually. I've moved between private and corporate PA work over the years, and to some extent I'd advise someone starting out now to focus on the former. Private PA work has the advantage of being less bureaucratic, in that you'll probably have a bit more independence and won't also be called on to fix the whole office'so IT problems. Although if you end up working for a HNWI with a private family office then you might effectively end up in the same situation as a business/corp PA. IME, private PAs are required to have a bit more flexibility and more likely to have to travel, but depending on the industry and family, the perks may be better. Corporate PA work might have the advantage of big business type benefits, such as proper pension, healthcare etc. It's something to consider, but to be honeat I've talked myself out of being able to advise you either way!

wobblebobblehat · 19/03/2015 13:28

I think a co-ordinator/project role would be a better way to go. Far easier not to get dragged into everything that is happening.

Colleagues also seem to think they know exactly what your job and what you should be doing at any given time. So, if the boss is out or travelling, you get comments along the lines of, "I guess you're quite quiet whilst Bob is out of the office...". Err no..... I'm even busier because he's not picking up his emails and everyone is coming to me...... They just assume you've not got a lot of typing to do or tea to make.... Confused

Laquila · 19/03/2015 13:35

That is so chuffing true, wobble!!

Want2bSupermum · 19/03/2015 14:25

I really feel bad for the assistants. It's as if the people making the decisions about who to cut are gunning for the assistants because they do hold quite a lot of power. However with that power they keep the company ticking over. Countless times I have seen the assistants treated poorly and I feel so bad for them. Their function is now to be outsourced. I think it is shameful.

OP I can't tell you more plainly that I would not waste your time with doing a secretarial course. The workplace has changed. Project admin is so much better.

Original poster
coffeewithchips · 19/03/2015 20:33

Wow there is a lot to think about on here, thanks.

I'm not so keen on the Legal Secretarial course after reading that. I'm a bit worried about project management though. It sounds quite demanding with a lot of responsibility (which I'm trying to move away from, as I have a lot of responsibility in my current job and it's stressing me out with all the extra hours etc.)

I would ideally like a job I can go to in the morning, do a good job and go home without having to worry about it. Like a 8/9 - 5 job with no hassle. Sounds like the secretarial/PA job role has changed drastically though. My mum used to be a typist and a PA so I was going by her description of her role.

OP posts:
poocatcherchampion · 19/03/2015 20:40

I couldn't care less about shorthand and typing speed, I second the post who said you need MS office and to be able to multi task and prioritise.

I also agree with the suggestion of the temp agency route, if you are good they will keep you on or you will get your next job quickly

meandjulio · 19/03/2015 20:59

Few jobs will ask for shorthand any more so it's not really worth investing in I suppose, but it's still extremely convenient to have it for meeting minutes and generally for note taking.

Likewise I type much, much faster than I write, and accurately without having to revise for mistakes, and these days that's actually more useful than it was originally. I used to use it for copy typing which hardly anyone needs any more but text straight from your head to the screen without having to look at the keyboard is still pretty handy.

wobblebobblehat · 19/03/2015 21:49

Unless you manage to find a job with a small old school firm it really isn't a 9 to 5 with no hassle. Those jobs do exist but they seem to very thin on the ground.

There is absolutely no point in learning shorthand. Very few employers are interested in it now. If I take minutes at a meeting I type them directly into a Word doc. i too type a lot faster than I write.

As long as you can type fairly quickly and accurately then don't worry too much about typing speed. It depends on the job but most PAs don't do an awful lot of copy typing or dictation.

The job really is more organisational these days. I manage my boss' day from the moment he gets up to the moment he goes to bed (pretty much!). I schedule meetings and conf calls, pull together agendas, book meeting rooms and catering. I work out how he is going to get to a meeting, how long it will take, what he needs, who he will be meeting. I do research for him, I pull together information from his team to put together reports and I make them look pretty. I book his travel, do his expenses and create PowerPoint presentations for him. I also arrange workshops, events, offsite meetings, track and answer his emails. It sounds like he doesn't do a lot but he spends a lot of time travelling, in meetings and on conf calls. Seriously, the list goes on and on. It's like trying to spin plates and it's actually me telling him what to do rather than the other way around!

wobblebobblehat · 19/03/2015 21:52

Oh, and when I say I schedule meetings, i mean i schedule them then reorganise them about 20 times. You will not believe how often diaries change...

PiratesLifeForMe · 19/03/2015 22:00

Oh wobblebobblehat...yes. It's actually great to see someone sum up what a PA actually does.

I usually get 'oh you're a secretary? That's what a PA really is isn't it? You make tea and answer the phone! Hahaha stop trying to give yourself a title!

??

wobblebobblehat · 19/03/2015 22:01

Also, you are very lucky if you can find a 1:1 role nowadays so you are doing all of the above x 3/4/5/6/7. Plenty of jobs being advertised that are looking for a PA to look after a Management Board... Confused

wobblebobblehat · 19/03/2015 22:05

Pirates, once I get started i can't stop!

I think it's the assumption that it's a doddly little job that doesn't require a lot of brain power that gets my goat.

PiratesLifeForMe · 19/03/2015 22:21

Yes exactly, it 'you've had a long day? Really? How?! Grrrr

CliveCussler · 19/03/2015 22:22

This thread's really interesting as I have 'ended up' in an project mgmt job and generally feel I am underqualified for it. I have a clinical background, but wanted something to fit in around school and this role has evolved for me over the last 6 years.

I have a degree, but no admin/project mgmt quals. I'm currently enrolled on an ILM level 3 course, but it's not the right course at all.

Are there any free or funded courses out there that would be useful? Work are highly unlikely to fund anything for me, or give me time off to do it.

I cope with the job fine, but would like some qualifications to back it up in case I ever move jobs.

MostAmused · 19/03/2015 22:27

It depends what kind of salary you're aiming for. I'm on 14k a year as a receptionist/host at a car dealership. It's decent hours, I answer the phone, order stationary, uniform and customer refreshments, welcome customers and show them to the relevant area/person. It's easy and I go home able to forget it and enjoy my evening. Didn't need any qualifications, just experience in customer service and microsoft office.

Want2bSupermum · 20/03/2015 03:23

Clive There will be more research papers published now on six sigma but I honestly believe the best qualification for project management is experience and being good with logic/ common sense.

I am in the US and our local library has Harvard Business Review available plus back issues. There are often quite interesting articles related to project management. From there you can look up the research articles and see what is referenced in there.

Wobble I fully understand where you are coming from. I had a first year (I'm in accounting so its someone just out of college) tell me that they were shocked that the secretary who 'sat outside of the CEO's office' was on $120k per year plus got a bonus and stock options when you know Bob in AP was on $40k per year. I was like hell yeah she does, if you knew half of what she did you would know that her salary is about half of what it should be. That lady knew everything about the company and was the person running everything. When I wanted to know what was going I asked her every single time.

Best thing about auditing payroll is seeing what everyone makes. It really helps when it comes to knowing if you are being under or over paid.

GraysAnalogy · 20/03/2015 04:13

I've worked admin jobs before I went to uni and never had a qualification for them, there's loads in my area for this sort of work. There's often specialist agencies, might be worth a Google.

Want2bSupermum · 20/03/2015 18:57

Grays - I don't know how old you are because from what I have seen in job postings the junior admin jobs often ask for a degree or equivalent experience. Crazy I know but there are so many people applying for these jobs they can demand it.

Also, the area has changed beyond recognition in the past decade. The skills needed 10 years ago are no longer demanded. Instead they want someone who can run stuff in lieu of the person they are assisting. Also the days of just being able to get a job are gone in most parts of the country. My dad was looking for some admin help for 2 days and called an agency. He had the choice of over 50 people. Wasn't like that before 2008.

GraysAnalogy · 20/03/2015 19:00

Im in my late 20's Want2be, but even now admin jobs are available and they're not asking for degrees, just experience and ability to use MS office and other packages if applicable but training given. It may be the job market is less competitive where I'm from.

lavenderhoney · 20/03/2015 19:10

It absolutely depends on what area and company you are interested in working for. And the type of person you envisage working for.

I am an EA, have been for years and my new title is business assistant. I don't do typing, shorthand, take dictation, write letters for signing or make the tea. My boss makes me tea!

What's your degree in? Because that will help you decide what to look at, if you want to use it. Your cv and how it's written is very important.

EAs now have to be switched on. A strategic boss has a need for someone who undertands his role, can do most of it, and is very organised. Business life moves very fast- you have to be on it.

Original poster
coffeewithchips · 21/03/2015 08:32

My degree is in English Literature and my working background is in education with some previous office experience before that.
I'm currently looking at doing the Pearson MOS course instead of the secretarial ones. I am confident with most of MS Office anyway but I would like something in my CV to prove it.
I may look at local council admin jobs too, particularly within family or education departments. Hopefully temping could help get me there.

OP posts:
lavenderhoney · 21/03/2015 18:03

Do you really want to be an EA? I would suggest before you take courses, you go on linked in and find EA's near you in a sector you're interested in. Contact them and ask if you could call them/ buy them a coffee and ask them how they got into the role, if there's any training they recommend- and if they would keep you in mind.

Look at job specs for roles you are interested in. Working for a marketing person as a team ea or whatever- the pay isn't good at in some sectors and it very much depends on what the boss wants as skills in his/ her ea.

wobblebobblehat · 21/03/2015 20:22

Agree with lavenderhoney, see if you can go and shadow a couple of people before you sign up for a course. You may find that it's not what you want to do after all. Far better to find that out before you commit a year/money to it.

It may be a route into a company as well.

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