Quick query on Part Time Pro Rata Holidays

[TwoBeaversAreBetterThanOne]

Was just hoping that someone in the know could confirm that I am thinking along the right lines here for what my pro rata holiday should be as I am reducing my week from 5 days to three days Tuesday-Thursday.
Contractually I have 25 days annual leave plus 8 BH paid. My understanding is that I should get 3/5's of this total for my holiday (obviously if any BH fell on a working day this would come out of my allocation). The company have stated 15 days annual leave which is 3/5's of the 25 days. I think this is possibly comes under unfavourable treatment compared to the FT employees - plus it is actually less than the Statutory minimum of 5.6 weeks which would be a minimum of 16.8 days (5.6 * 3).
Am I missing something bleedingly obvious here? Have sent a query to HR for them to confirm the calculations but a bit worried I am talking rubbish.
Many Thanks In Advance

If you wanted to take a week off when you're working 5 days a week, you have to take 5 days holiday. If you're only working 3 days a week, you only need to take 3 days holiday to get a whole week off. Bank Holidays shouldn't come into really - they're mostly on a Monday, which you're not working, and from what you say I don't think you need to use up a day's holiday for a BH.

So it seems fair to me.

You are entitled to 60% of 33 days I would have thought if bank holidays are included in your contract. They are arguing I suspect that you don't work on bank holidays but this only applies to 5 of them as Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years fall on any day.

This is what I get - 20 days in total that covers 60% of my 25 contractual and 5 for bank holidays. This year 6 bank hols fall on my work days so that's a bit unlucky but generally it works.

But yes, your other point is very valid. 28 days for a full time employee is statutory legal minimum so you should have at least the equivalent

You are correct - you should get pro-rata leave for the bank holidays, so an extra 3/5 of 8 which is 5 days. If any BH falls on one of your working days then that will account for one or two of the 5, but the remainder should be added to your leave entitlement.

My employer would give you the 15 days plus BH as and when they occurred. So someone working Mon-Wed would prob be better off than someone working Tue-Thu. Is that what they are offering?

I think they need to add pro rated bank holidays. So 3/5 of 8 equals 4.8, rounded up to 5 additional days. If a bank holiday falls on one of your working days you should book a days annual leave. As you intend to work tues to thurs this arrangement works in your favour. Maybe double check with ACAS if your hr dept aren't in agreement.

Cross post with titchy

I'd assume you'd get 3/5 of a full time person's annual leave.

If BHs fall on the days you work, you get the BH (don't work). If a BH falls on the day you don't work, then you're not working anyway, so don't need a BH. To ask for a replacement BH on another day is a bit cheeky IMO.

Thanks all, was hoping I was thinking about it the right way although there are differing opinions. In effect the FT employees would be getting extra paid holiday to me if it was worked out this way. I think that because this years Christmas BH happen to fall on Mondays and Fridays they haven't thought ahead. Have asked HR to clarify anyway so we will see what they come back with.
Trilbydoll - the letter doesn't state anything about BH's which is why I started thinking about it but in that case it would mean some years I would not be getting statutory minimum as would be the case this year
TywysogesGymraeg - it is not a replacement BH it is ensuring that by going PT I don't lose out on benefits that FT employees get - as they will be paid additional holiday pay to me. I am looking at it that FT contractually we have 25 paid free to choose holiday and 8 enforced paid holiday days which happen to be BH - I will be loosing 3/5's of those 8 days which is effectively a paycut

TywysogesGymraeg - of course it's not cheeky!

If a FT person only works three day in a particular week because two BHs fall during that week, you'd be pretty pissed off that you are both working the same number of hours, but they're getting 40% more salary than you are!

I don't know that it's set in law but most places pro -rata regardless of working days so that everyone is treated the same. As half of the bank hols fall on a Monday (sometimes more if Christmas, boxing or new year do) just giving the people the day as it falls would hugely unfair.

So if Employee A works mon, Tuesday and wed and is given their 15 days plus the 4 Monday's they work, that's 19 days of leave. If they want to have the remaining time in those weeks off they only need to take a further 8 days annual leave from their 15 to have 4 full weeks off.

Employee B like the OP works tues-Thursday. So she is not given the 4 Monday's. If she wants those bank hol weeks off she needs to take 3 days each week, a total of 12 days.

Neither employee has worked in those weeks but A still has 7 days to take whenever so she is hugely favoured.

It's the same with shift workers - their annual holiday entitlement is rolled into their annual leave, so they would get 33 days to use as and when.

The company gives 33 days holiday. They just dictate that the full time employees have 8 of them on designated days. If a part time worker is not offered a percentage of ALL holiday then they are being treated less favourably than their full time equivalent.

I don't understand why people find the pro rata holidays so difficult. I used to work out annual leave entitlements in my previous employment and it was very straightforward.

All you had to do was take the total number of annual leave days + bank holidays - in my case 25 days + 8 bank holidays, convert it into hours - again in my case 33 days x7.5 hours = 247.50 hours. (based on a full time 37.5 hour week)

Most of the staff were part timers so they were given pro rata number of hours holiday eg 25 hours a week = 25/37.5 x247.50 = 165 hours per year.

Out of those hours I would then deduct the hours of any bank holidays that fell on their normal working days at the beginning of the year and they then knew how many hours annual leave they had left to 'choose'.

So, for example, if they worked 5 hours every day, Monday to Friday, I would deduct 40 hours from the 165 hours giving them 125 hours to 'choose'. If they worked Tuesday 8.5 hours, Wednesday 8.5 hours and Friday 8 hours and Christmas/New Year was Thursday and Friday they would only be deducted the 16 hours due to be worked on Boxing Day and Good Friday because the other Bank Holidays fell on days they did not work, giving them 147 hours to 'choose'.

This also worked well for those who worked unequal days - eg 8 hours on Monday, 4 hours on Tuesday and 6 hours on Thursday - it meant they took annual leave based on the number of hours they actually worked - this stopped some people from always having their 'odd' annual leave days on the day they worked the most hours.

With this system there was no advantage in working certain days of the week to gain extra paid leave - the main problem was if someone worked the majority of their hours on a Monday - in this case we would allow them to build up some TOIL so they could at least pick some of their leave days.

By law you are entitled to 19.8 days annual leave. I work in HR and you are entitled to BHs pro rata even though you don't work the days a bank holiday would fall.

I have done exactly this - dealt with precisely as ohnoalfie says.

I anticipate they have simply forgotten to mention bank holidays and you'll be entitled to 60% of the 8 days too.