please help - alarming, dangerous incident at nursery

[distressed]

Dh has just phoned me to let me know about a very alarming incident he witnessed at our son's nursery this evening.

What happened was that he found one of ds's friends (aged 2) walking on the pavement outside the nursery. DH asked him where his mummy was - it turns out she wasn't around at all. He had somehow got out of the nursery all by himself. I dread to think what could have happened to him. It is all too easy to imagine that he might have walked out into the road and got run over.

Without going into too much detail, a number of things have concerned us about the nursery recently, most seriously (up to now) the failure to maintain statutory staffing ratios for 2yos in mixed classes with 3+yos. What happened today is a classic example of the types of risk posed by failure to maintain these ratios.

We have complained to the nursery as have other parents, with limited success.

So mumsnetters, can you please help me?

1. Am I overreacting?
2. Can I complain to Ofsted or the EY dept of the local authority?
3. How should we approach yet another complaint to the nursery on this issue? Threaten them with Ofsted, EY etc?
4. Should I start looking for alternative childcare immediately?
5. What other questions should I be asking myself?

This is so upsetting. We have been very happy with the nursery up until the last 3m or so.

Thank you all very much in advance.

when ds was at nursery we were not allowed to let ourselves out, you had to be let out by a member of staff to ensure no other children followed you out

jan, don't panic, i was reassured this morning about everything apart from the ratios (as explained below) and i suspect sd may well be right on that, even though i don't particularly like it. i have explained in my mail. haven't got yours yet.

BK - I haven't got yours either. Blu told me recently that I may have blocked my email through MN when I originally joined (I don't remember doing it!)- but I have asked her to send it to you. If she's around it should come through to you soon. I am having a complete heart failure.

Just picked this one up - Goodness - it makes you feel sick at the possibilties of what could have happened. If this was my ds's nursery he would be out of there before his little feet could touch the ground and I would complain to everyone I could think of. This would not be to cause trouble - this would be because if I didn't and a child subsequently dies or was injured I could not live with the guilt. We pay a fortune as parents to have our children well looked after and we deserve at least a reasonable standard of care. You have to ask yourself how you would have reacted if it was your child wandering up the road. You have to ask yourself how you would feel if you had run this child over. You have to ask yourself how the bloody hell they have managed to let this happen. Hope you are feeling better over it now, what an awful traumatic experience for anybody to have. Are you sure no-one on here has children attending the same nursery?

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i have said we will do that.

Helbels - unless I am making 2+2=5 - I'm pretty sure that someone else on here does have children there which is why BK is trying very hard to communicate with JiL!

Yes - perhaps so!! Just being a bit thick - pg hormones, you know!!! Something like this is so emotive, I don't always read it properly. BK - so sorry you have had to go through this {{{}}}

I know Helsbels - It really throws you doesn't it?

I think its so hard when something like this happends. When you read all the choosing a nursery threads and nursery v nanny v childminders threads on here you can see how much all of us agonise over choosing the best childcare for our little ones and when something like this happens it feels such a slap in the face!

However BK has dealt with it very well and made sure that the nursery are take it very seriously which is somewhat reassuring I would think.

yes very reassuring - It is good to know that there are people that care enough to do something when they see something bad/disturbing. You are right of course, that a lot of the anger we feel is due to the time we spend choosing what we think is right.

Can I just say well done to BK's DH? I know lots of men who wouldn't notice this kind of thing, or would vaguely wonder about it afterwards. He's a star.

Ditto JaninLondon's praise for BK's DH. Hope there are more like him than the parent who let the boy through!

and again more praise - a lot of men are scared to approach children in the current culture so praise and congratulations on bravery too.

there was a mother there too. nevertheless, he will be chuffed by your comments, thanks

blu, got your mail thanks.

jan, did you get my mail yet? I will try again in the next couple of hours. what time are you leaving the house, i will respond before you go down there if you let me know what time.

At the nursery my DS attends whenever the first door to the nursery is opened another member of staff always goes and stands by the door to the outside to avoid any child leaving the premises without a parent or carer.

I am more reassured by this now after reading BKs story.

BK - I think the MN contact thing must be down. I am leaving here at about 4:30. Need to know if this is still hush hush or if I can say anything. Obviously don't want to go barging in without my facts or to dump you in it! Please email me!!

bk, how shocking for you. Hope your nursery staff adopt a new system at picking up time. IME the one that works best is when each parent asks for their child and the staff then hand them over. Of course tailgating can still occur, though if lots of parents with children linger on. Any chance that a member of staff could stay on guard at the door leading onto the street,open it only when requested and count who goes out?

As well as complaining, can you and fellow parents suggest a safer method, then see if the nursery want to discuss this or follow it? Their reaction to a suggestion could be more revealing than their reaction to a complaint.

If you decide to move your son, don't get too upset about the switch - IME if a new nursery is a nice, friendly place, children will usually settle in. My sons both happily changed carers and nurseries at least once from 2 - 5 years. Remember that even if you stay at this nursery, children leave every term to go on to big school and if the staff turnover is high, your son will be seeing new people all the time, so don't get too fixed a picture of it ( trying to make you feel better about moving him )

Another 'Well done' to BK's husband (guessed it ws you actually ).

jan, i've mailed you and put my work no in the mail in case you want to talk.

thanks for these messages. how did you all know it was me?

Well even without the slight giveaway mid-thread manoeuvre, a careful check of the excellent grammar and spelling might have been an indicator. For those of us who even clocked this yesterday, that is. Glad you feel reassured generally about their new safety controls but still getting cold feelings around heart for that little fellow and his parents - and all of you at the nursery.
Will be very interested to hear what response you get about ratios - maybe we should all be suggesting to Ofsted that the correct ratio must be maintained for a very large percentage of the day. If I'm honest this very issue has had me mildly concerned (mildly because dd is at present a non-mobile baby) about dd's nursery. There are VERY rarely the correct four members of staff in her room when I go to pick her up.
Good luck with this bk and so sorry to hear of it.

The ratio thing is tricky though. What about childminders - they need to go to the toilet, go into the kitchen etc. At least with a nursery there is someone there.

That's a fair point Tinker. But inevitably because I only see nursery at picking up time I come away wondering if four people are rostered in the room that day (which there should be if all 12 babies are attending) or whether through illness or whatever, they are skimping for the entire session.
Dd's nursery is big enough to employ "floaters" who could cover for the breaks etc that I utterly agree staff should have. But that means extra salaries...I'm making it sound like I am very unhappy with it. All the staff are lovely and well-qualified and don't give the impression of being over-stretched or unhappy...you just never quite know 100%.

Very bk title and use of langauge but with a deliberate use of capitals in the text to put us off the scent

succinct+tothepoint+polite+well-written+2yearoldson = bk.

Cunning lack of caps is not enough to hide you, sweets.

Good luck sorting this out. FWIW I would do what you're doing and give the nursery ONE chance to tighten up their procedures to ensure this cannot happen again. Hope it works.