Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Work

Chat with other users about all things related to working life on our Work forum.

Original poster

How much to pay relative's carers now that relative has passed away?

104 replies

NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 12:28

My granny died before Christmas. Thanks to a team of 4 great carers, she was able to stay in her own home until the end. She needed round the clock care at the end, and this obviously was not cheap.

Now that gran has passed away, how much should the carers be paid in lieu of notice? The main carers are of retirement age, and two were friends of extended family stepping in to help my gran out. as far as I know are not rushing to find alternative employment.

I want to be fair to them. There is no written contract, so we have to just do what feels right. They were paid cash weekly. We cannot afford a month's pay for all as that would amount to many thousands of pounds. I said to dh that I'd like to ask them what's they'd feel happy with, but dh says that puts them in a difficult position.

Any thoughts?

OP posts:
ClashCityRocker · 04/01/2015 15:16

But it's not suddenly deciding they were self employed, i don't think.

It sounds to me like it's always been done on a self employed basis.

DeadCert · 04/01/2015 15:17

Well then how much CAN you afford to pay them, regardless of employment status.

Pay them that and then what they're entitled to out of probate.

ClashCityRocker · 04/01/2015 15:17

Ah, ask the bookkeeper if they were employed or engaged on a self employed basis.

Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 15:20

Gee...what a thread...and breathe...

If my gran had lived, then an asset would've been be sold to pay for care. As it stands, it's all going on tax and the rest is in trust for the next generation.

The only( cash ) beneficiary is the carer we are talking about.

OP posts:
Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 15:22

Thanks, I will ask her, clash.

OP posts:
DrownedGirl · 04/01/2015 15:35

It sounds as if possibly they SHOULD have been PAYE but weren't. Not much you can do about that now, but base your termination payments on what redundancy entitlement WOULD have been, sounds fair.

MinceSpy · 04/01/2015 15:51

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3303

The above link is advice from ACAS re carers when the person dies.

I am sorry for your loss.

Storytown · 04/01/2015 15:55

If the estate owes these people money, then that will be paid before anything else, so less cash goes into trust.

Flowery has set out the position for you, even if you don't like it, but of course you/the "estate" can afford to pay.

Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 16:10

Ok, based on that calculator... This lady is owed £13000.

She has only earned £20,000 over the past 20 years. Then and additional £10k in the last 9 months or so. So her redundancy would actually be about 43% of all the money she's ever been paid. Doesn't that sound a bit high?? I'm pretty sure that she was self employed, btw, based on the helpful link from mince spy.

OP posts:
mrsfarquhar · 04/01/2015 16:12

Am interested in this as am looking into carers for one of my in laws.

That link is really clear. thank you.

MrsMcRuff · 04/01/2015 16:17

Why don't all the posters being bitchy to the op just back off?

Until you are in the position, with no previous experience, of having to deal with the financial and other affairs of an elderly relative who has declined fairly rapidly, you have absolutely no idea how complicated it can be, and no right to make snide remarks.

As far as I can see, the op is just trying to do her best by everyone. Flowers op.

DeadCert · 04/01/2015 16:18

I am sorry for your loss but sorry, are you saying you were one month away from not being able to pay for this care?

Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 16:26

Dead cert there was rental income coming in to pay for care,but that's all frozen now. And yes, outgoings were exceeding income at the end. Family had to lend many thousands in the short term. But that's not what this thread is about.

Mrs, thanks. It's funny how ignorance of my gran's employer status (in this complex and sad set of circs )is being construed by some as me trying to rob someone blind! I'm shaking my head in disbelief, tbh. Good ol' MN. Best thing for helping you develop a thick skin...fast!

Thanks also for kind words from many x

OP posts:
CocktailQueen · 04/01/2015 16:27

Mm, it does sound unfair to you/your Gran's estate to base your book-keeper's final pay on a month's work, whereas for the previous 20 years it would have been much less. But if she will be working for you for another few months, then sounds like you can base her final salary on that instead.
I'm sorry for your loss, and it all sounds complicated. Would the Inland Revenue be able to help?

Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 16:27

Dead, we financially were clinging on by our finger tips, hands tied as power of attorney hadn't yet gone through.

OP posts:
Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 16:28

Thanks cocktail for acknowledging this.

OP posts:
Storytown · 04/01/2015 16:30

But surely anything that's due is owed by the estate and will be paid as such. You don't have to pay it now. It's entirely usual that the assets/income are frozen on a death but that doesn't mean creditors never get paid what's owed

Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 16:31

Yes story, but the figure still needs to be decided on.

OP posts:
Storytown · 04/01/2015 16:34

Yes, of course. I would expect you to take advice from the solicitors acting for the estate on that. I was responding to the assertion that you might not be able to afford to pay the correct compensation.

DeadCert · 04/01/2015 16:37

Isn't that what a solicitor will decide?

munchkinmaster · 04/01/2015 16:43

13k sounds massive.
Surely she had 2 distinct jobs and is now redundant from her carers job but is still employed as a book keeper?

Original poster
NoonarAgain · 04/01/2015 16:46

Munch, that's kind of my feeling too, but flowers et al still think I'm a villain!

OP posts:
christmaspies · 04/01/2015 16:46

munchkin if it's decided that she was an employee, I suspect it would all count as continuity of service

MinceSpy · 04/01/2015 16:47

Any contract ended the moment your GM died and the employees are not entitled to notice. Any employee who had worked for her for more than two years is entitled to redundancy pay, outstanding pay and any outstanding holiday pay. Any money owed comes out of any estate your GM left.

You should give ACAS a ring, they will be able to help you work out if these people were self-employed or employees and if so how much redundancy they are owed.

Talk to the people in question and explain that you are beginning the probate process but it will take time. Tell them that they are no longer employed by your late GM and that they should consider signing on etc if appropriate. There is a strict protocol re the order debts should be paid out of an estate.

Quitelikely · 04/01/2015 16:48

When an employer dies it is classed as a frustration of contract. This means their contract ended on the day the employer died. The employee would not be entitled to notice pay but would qualify for a statutory redundancy payment if they had worked for your father for at least two years, unless the personal representative of his estate (sometimes known as the executor) offered to renew the contract within eight weeks.

If your father was the direct employer then the redundancy pay, any outstanding wages and holiday pay would have to be paid out of his estate.

You might find it helpful to sit down with the employee and explain what is happening and when she can expect to get paid. If you are not the person dealing with your father's estate then you can pass on the contact details to allow the employee to speak directly to the personal representative.