Bad day at the

[threelittlepumpkins]

Don't really know where to go from here.
I am a college lecturer. Have been back almost 6 weeks after a year's mat leave. Having a massive, recurring problem with my younger leaner class ( other 2 classes I teach are fine)
Yesterday during personal tutorials one 16yo girl told me she had been talking, laughing and generally disrupting my lesson the previous day because she didnt find what we were doing relevant and we should have been doing something else
I spoke to her personal tutor and the course manager about this, but their approach seemed to be "well what are you doing wrong to make them behave like this, what do you need to change?" I am fed up of having had no support from anyone since I started this job 2.5 y ago. I am not even qualified yet- on 2nd yr PGCE- and the first lesson I taught at short notice I was given an a4 piece of paper with assessment criteria on and THAT'S IT. It has continued thus, despite the fact that I am very open and always asking for help and advice.
After my lessons yesterday I had a 1.5h pep-talk from course manager, very patronising really, asking had I thought about doing this and that? All things I regularly do.
My colleague, who covered my mat leave and teaches the same subject as me, told me that students in my problem class have been to see her and asked to swap to her class because they are not learning anything. I have worked my arse off since going back, and even took them on a trip out,which really enriched their learning, and tbh just feel they are ungrateful little fuckers. I know that they are learning. I resent not being backed up by my bosses, being undermined by my coleagues who seem to be agreeing with and placating these students, and being put in the position of having to justify my teaching methods and resources to these students.
Ended up hysterically sobbing yesterday and feel like the biggest nobhead. Oh, and a rather lovely female student pushed me in the corridor because I was in her way!!
If you got this far, any advice or general words of commiseration would be appreciated!

poo, it is supposed to say bad day at the "office" but I forgot you can't put quotation marks in the title

and [sympathy emoticon] No advice, but how horrid for you.

Thanks evilannie (pmsl at how that name sounds ) I am feeling really wallowy today, and not back in work till Monday so worrying about it.

Can you move on just yet?

Sometimes, even applying for other jobs helps morale.

This may be horrible for you, but could you ask your course leader to sit in on a session just to see if it makes a difference a) to their (the student's) behaviour or b) whether they might have a fab suggestion for something you can try?

The student who pushed you will get soaked by rainwater when a car drives through a puddle next to her today. Instant karma

can you go through what you are doing and what your colleague is doing in her parallel class (the one they want to switch to) ? See if there is anything you can improve on.

Then, if you are sure you are not doing the wrong things - talk to the girl in question and ask her what her problem really is. Talk to her as an adult and say that if she has a problem she needs to tell you about it - not be disruptive - which is not fair to the rest of the class and does her no good either. Maybe she just does not want to be there - and nothing you can do will change that. If that is the case - maybe you can suggest to the powers that be that she should not be doing the course.

Don't let it dent your self-confidence.

expat- not for another month, so don't have to pay maternity pay back. Also could do with finishing PGCE and not sure anyone else will take me without it. Don't want to walk away- think they will look on it/me as a failure. Colleague suggesting changing days so I dont have to teach that class but I tend to think NO WAY to that, as said class will think they have cause it thus got their own way.

annie- have got my curriculum manager observing me with this class at 4pm mon, which will be interesting. Said it was because I have had a break from teaching, but I am starting to wonder if that is not the real reason.....[paranoid emoticon]

Thanks for your replies

I know NOTHING about teaching, and I understand your need to exude authority, but surely, for the happiness of all of you, a battle of wills about you or them having 'won' is not something to engage in?

I would try and swap days for your sake - and theirs - and then as soon as you have qualified, make steps to move on.

No good you all being miserable. They will respect you less for flogging a dead horse anyway, IMO.

throckenholt- thanks for suggestions. My colleagues are all very good at making "suggestions" but I tend to do everything they suggest anyway. It's not just this girl that's a prob tbh, just the straw that broke the camel's back. Had another student tell me last week, in response to being told off for talking and playing noughts and crosses in class, that he had asked to move class because he didnt think we were learning anything. Both he and this girl have the same personal tutor, and when I raised the issue with them, on both occasions she has said (or words to effect) "oh no one else has EVER had a problem with them" so not very helpeful or confidence building. AM starting to believe that the problem is me now, and I am not ct out for teaching

Also, you can expend your energy giving another group of individuals who will appreciate the benefit of your teaching abilities, rather than wasting it on a group who, lets face it, arent going to change their ways anytime soon, IMO.

vvvqv I understand what you are saying. Perhaps I put it badly. If I were to swap days I would feel humiliated, because I think it would look like I have been "removed" from that class as a result of all this negative feedback. Totally agree not worth getting upset and worrying, was so annoyed with myself yesterday. I tend to try and not let colleagues know if I am struggling- past experience has shown thay are fairly unsympathetic, and rather relish my predicament. It's a lovely environment, no?
Also can't swap days due to childcare.

I really appreciate all the replies, makes me feel less alone, thank you.

that's prob part of the problem tbh- I am waiting for them to behave and knuckle down, it might never happen. This happened in my first full year of teaching too- again, only with the youngest class, the other 2 classes were fine, and by the end of the year so were younger learners. Can see why management think it is me tbh

I think it is great that your attitude is not to let them case you out of your classroom, why should you have to change because they are being difficult. I have no experience of teaching or your environment, but I know when I have challenges at work dealing with other peple and their issues, the best way is to tackole the problem directly. Talk to the individuals about their specific issues, ask them what it is that they would want to do differently, and then decide what to aply and what to ignore ... at the end of the day these are teenagers, and your job is to instruct them, they may not like it, or be interested in it but tat is not your problem. It sounds like you are doing all you can to take advice from others, but at the same time sometimes you have to go with your gut instinct and run with what you believe in. I think they will respect you more and you will respect yourself more if you work through it.

Sounds like you aren't getting the support you need from management. Think sitting in on other lecturer's session might be an interesting idea. If you are still doing your PGCE, could you talk to your own old tutors? Do you have a union rep you can consult?

And then go back to your boss, say 'these are the things I am doing, in line with all your advice and suggestions, but students in this class are still disruptive. I feel that I am being undermined, that my colleagues and you give the students the message that it's OK to behave badly in my lessons. I would like you to back me up and make it clear to these students that disruption is not acceptable behaviour'.

I am also a teacher in a 6th form college - I do find that once a group gets familiar with another teacher and their teaching style it can be difficult for them to settle with you - basically it takes time. It is nothing personal and absolutely nothing to do with your teaching - just that the little darlings are creatures of habit and they get used to a certain structure/style of teaching.
I experience this a lot (both ways) as I often take a group over when they move to the 2nd year of their A level. You are probably feeling really unconfident after returning from maternity leave (I know I was!) and it will take time to build up your confidence - this isn't helping and I would explain this to your curriculum manager and so they can support you. It sounds like their is a 'ringleader' in the class and so I would suggest she moves groups (no great loss) I bet you will find that she probably doesn't want to move away from the group she is with but at least you will call her bluff - if she does decide to go then I bet the rest of the group will settle down (normally one rotten apple infecting the rest of the barrell etc) and if she doesn't then she can't complain because she has been given the option.
Please, please don't blame yourself - I have had groups like this and by the end of the year they are really sad to leave you and have completely forgotten about the other teacher (who they adored.) Also, don't forget that 16 year olds like to get a reaction and upset you (it's the hormones !) and so it is best to just smile sweetly and say 'yes, x is a wonderful teacher, what a shame she can't teach you this year.' Once they see they can't get a reaction they will give up.

Massive hug.

OK. For a start you could point out to the darlings that as they are over 16 the govt no longer has any duty to educate them. They are not in school any more, you are past the OCT1 census date, so the college gets money for them so if they don't want to be there they can p* off. At this point I usually ask why they did not go bact to school. 9 times out of 10 it's because the school won't have them back in the 6th form.

They are technically adults. Therefore any bad behaviour on their part is a choice THEY made, along with the choice THEY made to go to college. When they complain that they're no learning anything ask what THEY are doing about it. You are a lecturer ffs, not a primary teacher. Your job is to give them the starting point and theirs is to take responsibility for themselves and learn from it. Yes I know in practise what happens is we spoon feed them, and this is probably what happened with their last teacher, they've got lazy and are probably really annoyed that you actually expect them to do any actual work.

Finally, the really obnoxious ones I find can be brought down to size by handing them the course specifications, the scheme of work and asking them where their idea of 'more relevant work' i.e. easier stuff, fits in. If they can find it then offer to teach it. Otherwise, point out you're the qualified one, that's why YOU are teaching the class, not them.

thanks for the supportive words charlyp, I totally agree with you.

edam I will be copying that out to learn to say to boss, who is totally dismissive
of all issues presented to him, so that I don't lose it in front of him (thank god he had left before my hysterics)Observing others, union rep, tutor all good ideas, thank you kindly

Incy thanks so much for the vote of confidence. I'm still quite new to teaching in PCE and I know I have a lot to learn, and am willing to do so. You know how the environment is now- it's all about the business, funding, retention, results etc. In our college now we are unable to simply withdraw a failing student from one alevel, as they would have to withdrawn from the entire programme- this means that even if a student consistently gets U's, it is nigh on impossible to stop them plodding on, sitting exam, failing that and then getting hammered re results. Sigh.....

Definitely think am being played against other teacher and vice versa. Feel much better for having posted though- also rang my friend at work who wasnt in yesterday and she is going to keep her ear to the ground and report back to me later as to if/what has been said. I know I have to not let it get to me, I do wear my heart on my sleeve far too much.

threelittlepumpkins I am really concerned about you because you don't need this denting your confidence at this time - I know returning after maternity leave is really difficult at the best of times. I am willing to bet you are an excellent teacher because you care so much (the reason why you are so upset) and that, above everything, is what counts. I am willing to bet that this dreadful girl is a boaderline U grade and the real reason she is being ansy is because she knows she is likely to fail and wants someone else to blame (heaven forbid she accepts she just needs to do more work out of lessons!)

Probably, at any other time you would just let it go rather than question your teaching - it's just because your confidence is low. I think you just need a massive confidence boost -I really don't think the fact that you haven't finished your PGCE is a problem - some of the best teachers I know are 'unquialified' and because they are so enthusiastic and open to change they are way better than a cynic sitting out their retirement.

I have encountered this sort of student on many an occasion and their anger is always about them ,never about you or anything you have done wrong.

I would also say the teacher who is teaching the other group needs to back you up and firmly tell any whingy students that you are a good teacher and they need to speak to you about any problems rather than speaking to her. Sometimes I think other teachers enjoy these 'confidences' a bit too much and without realising it, encourage the students because they enjoy being told how great they are! I have never known this sort of problem to go on for long when the other teacher is firm and points out that they are no longer involved.

Good luck and I hope it goes well. 16 year olds -it is such a joy to teach them at times !